LEAF changes upgrade pattern?

[Carsten W]

I think Leaf's trade in program is very fair! question for you all; What is Canon's upgrade price for a Canon 1DS mk II to a mk III?

I am really not a fan of Canon, but Canon has never promised an upgrade price. The problem is the promises made when people bought combined with the post-Hasselblad-price-drop reality of no real upgrade value being offered in many, but not all, cases.

[bcooter]

What is Canon's upgrade price for a Canon 1DS mk II to a mk III?

Every Canon I've upgraded to has been about 1/2 the original price.  I just drop the old ones off at the local dealer, he gets around $3,200 to $3,400 for a 1ds2, takes a very small commsion and gives me a good deal on the next model, usually a few hundred under list, so the upgrade cost comes in at about $3,400 each.

Since my Canons have about 200x the use of the medium format backs that's a pretty good deal.

On the other hand when I tried to sell my A22 about 2 years ago, I couldn't  get any serious offer above $8,000 U.S., including Leaf U.S. dealers.   From Europe I had a lot of offers for more, but they wanted me to trade it in on an A75 and ship them the new camera to Europe.  To risky, too much hassel, so I just sold it for 8k in cash, though my original buy in on that back was about $23,000.

Lately, just seeing what a good shape used p30+ in a contax mount would sell for in the real world is about $8,000 to $9,000, or about 1/2 the original price.

How times have changed.

B

[paratom]

I think the problem is with the development of prices its not really easy for the digital back companies to offer a real usefull upgrade policy.
I believe we can not really expect that in 1 year the price for a P45+ comes down to that of a P25+, and then when you trade in the used P25+ for a new P45+ you still expect maybe 70% of what you paid 1 year agao. (Justas an example).
I believe that with a certain speed price decrease and prices coming under a certain price limit plus short product circles the whole trade in concept doesnt really work efficiently any more.
Upgrading means nearly allways loosing a lot of money. My opinion

[ddk]

David,

For the sake of clarity, were the prices you received and compared to Yairs something recent
because the pricing you quote from Yair is dated September 2008-over seven months ago.

Mark

I didn't realize that, I'm talking about a week ago.

[gwhitf]

If everyone is selling an item at the exact same price it means that the profit is so thin that the only people that can sell it are box-movers. Do you want MFDB to go over to exclusively a box-mover distribution system? That would mean among other things that there would be no local demos, very little local training, no forum presence (good luck getting good info when buying your used back then), and any/all support would come from John Smith at a central call center 9am to 5pm who has no idea who you are. Do you see no benefit to the Value Added Reseller model?

Doug,

Maybe I'm missing something here.

I have no problem with the concept/theory of a VAR. But what kinda rubs me is the fact that I might be paying radically more to a VAR than someone else, and getting the very same service. Maybe I didn't bring a 2x4 to the Negotiating Table to beat you down on the price; maybe I just felt like it was kinda slimey to do that; kinda the way that I hate when clients nickel and dime me to death, so I don't do it down the line. I just say, "Be a VAR, and name your price publicly, and let me pay it or not. (Just like the way that B&H names their price on a 1ds3). I've got no problem on your markup, and the fact that you certainly add value to the deal. But I sure as hell don't want to pay four or five grand more than someone else on this forum, for example. Just out of theory".

That's why I buy used now.

Plus, I know that I'm gonna take a major beating when I resell, so there's simply no way to justify getting in real deep, on the front end, when you know you're gonna get killed on the back end.

When you read stories here, of these massive differences in quoted prices between dealers, it's enough money to make someone sit up and take note. Same back; same deal; way different money.

You tend to arm yourself mentally, in the same way that you do before you go in to buy a new car. Armed for battle.

Or just say, F it, and buy it used.

[Smallcooter]

[Snip]
Or just say, F it, and buy it used.

Amen to that, brother, amen.

[bcooter]

Amen to that, brother, amen.

I dig it, but deep down feel for the dealers.  The makers . . . ummm not so much, but the dealers and especially the Phase dealers cause they carry the burden of sales, service, training and even minor repairs.

Medium format digital has dug their own hole and it's not like they didn't know there were other cameras out there.  The day the first 1ds appeared one of the 4 makers should have bought one, dropped it on their engineers table and said, double everything.  double the file quality, the lcd view, tethering speed, wi-fi, reliability, focusing, lenses and software, because back then they were charging four and a half times as much as a 1ds, so at least they could offer twice what those cameras did, though they just chose to offer twice the file size.  Kind of funny that they have the same business model.

As far as dealer help that's a double edged sword.  On one hand it's nice to have, but on the other, why is the software and use of these cameras so complicated that you have to call someone to understand how to put the files into the software, or connect the camera to the computer?

I've owned every professional canon digital camera and never once called anyone for "tech" support.  I've had them fixed, I've had them break, but I've never had to call Canon and have them run me through EOS utility or DPP.  I've never had to ask them how to download a card from the camera or backup the files, or what file format the camera shoots.  

I'll admit medium format software has become a little easier, compared to those early versions, but still going from C-1 to phocus to lc11 takes a while to find all the buttons and figure out the workflow.

I also know that the world has changed, at least my world.   Nobody asks about file size anymore, they just want the look and the result and if you push the button that uprezzes the files from the convertor then fine, you now have a 120mb 8 bit tiff and that's all they're asking for with no complaints.

Yes I feel for the dealers  like CI who are good, invest in their business and bust ass to find solutions, but if I was them I would be writing some damn tough letters to Phase asking about price, dealer margins, promised lenses, bodies, accessories and software updates.  Many, many software updates.

B

[Peartree]

UK trade-in price Leaf Aptus 75s to Aptus II 10 is currently £7403.00