Lightroom 2.0 "catolog"

[dwdallam]

Can someone tell me what exactly the catalog holds? I have Lightroom set up to keep information in xmp files in the same folder as the RAW image, so what else is in the catalog? I was importing my folders tonight and watched in grow to several GBs.

[DarkPenguin]

Mostly it is a database of the same stuff that is in the xmp or exif.  (If you write that stuff to xmp.)  Lightroom writes changes to xmp but works off the database.

[dwdallam]

So what I am thinking is that the catalog file keeps the information of the xmp file PLUS the image previews. That was you can use the catalog ONLY to edit RAW files in Lightroom at the xmp level.

So you can copy the catalog between computers and work on the RAW files w/o having to copy the entire file. If I'm right here, that's a really nice way to do things. It's also a really nice way to catalog images w/o having the need to have the original file. So you could have the original images backed up on an external disk, and then NOT have them taking up space on your main working disk. However, you could browse all of your images on backup disks using the catalog.

Am I on the right track here?

[madmanchan]

The previews are actually stored in a separate file from the catalog, usually right next to the catalog. For instance, by default the catalog is called "Lightroom 2 Catalog.lrcat" and the previews file is called "Lightroom 2 Catalog Previews.lrdata".

Yes if you copy both of these files, say, to a laptop and take that with you, then you can continue working with images (e.g., organizing, keywording, etc.) even though the original raw files are left at home. You cannot make full edits to the actual image, of course, without the raw file.

[dwdallam]

The previews are actually stored in a separate file from the catalog, usually right next to the catalog. For instance, by default the catalog is called "Lightroom 2 Catalog.lrcat" and the previews file is called "Lightroom 2 Catalog Previews.lrdata".

Yes if you copy both of these files, say, to a laptop and take that with you, then you can continue working with images (e.g., organizing, keywording, etc.) even though the original raw files are left at home. You cannot make full edits to the actual image, of course, without the raw file.
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Can you make all adjustments that Lightroom has to offer? Also, what happens if you "remove" a folder from the catalog; do you lose all or some of your adjustment information? As it is in Bridge, the only file you need to retain all ACR changes is the xmp file. I guess I need to know what files I need to retain all Lightroom adjustments. Another way to put this is is there information in the catalog file necessary to the adjustment of the RAW file, or is all of the adjustment information contained in the xmp file?

[john beardsworth]

All the info is in the lrcat file, which is the database heart of the system. You need never see another xmp file again (though LR can read and write to them too).

All the thumbnails and previews are stored in the previews folder which sits next to the lrcat file. If you remove this folder, LR will start rebuilding it next time you open the program - so you don't need it, unlike the database.

Eric's comment about edits needs a little more detail. When the raw files are present, you can make all adjustments in Develop. When they aren't, you can still make adjustments but only those which are in Library's Quick Develop, which doesn't need access to the raw data. When you then return to base and reattach the raw files drives, those adjustments are recorded against the raw files.

You don't generally remove a folder from LR. Once it's catalogued, leave it catalogued.

[dwdallam]

I watched a couple of Adobe and other movies on just the catalog, and here is waht I think I understand.

--The catalog file holds all of the adjustment information.

--Lightroom can push the exact information to an xmp file. This makes adjustments available in ACR 4.5 and Bridge. No xmp file means no compatibility between programs.

--The previews are located in the same root folder as the cat file, which means you can copy that entire folder to another drive and still view your files--w/o copying the original RAWS or making jpgs.

--Some controversy over weather or not you can make adjustments w/o the original RAW file. One Adobe video source says no. My friend does it so I know somehow you can.

--Only one cat file can be loaded each time. This means if you have a cat file for each camera or folder or job you have to reopen each one each time. The way around this is to have one huge cat file. Obviously both methods have their shortfalls.

--The benefit of a cat file over a browser. such as Bridge, is that you can work on adjustments w/o the original RAW file (I think) and also that you always have a catalog of all your images w/o having to carry all of the RAW files with you. SO you could remove images from jobs you are not using to a back up drive from your main work station, while keeping a catalog (and the thumbnails/previews) for filing purposes in order to find them if you do need them.

I like it. The only thing is that you have to have Lightroom to view the previews. I guess you could simply make a batch JPG of each job and keep that too. But I understand the work flow opportunities for large stock type file keeping.

Do I have this right? Can someone explain any special means to actually work on RAWs w/o having them on your drive?

[john beardsworth]

You were doing well, then started going adrift.

--Some controversy over weather or not you can make adjustments w/o the original RAW file. One Adobe video source says no. My friend does it so I know somehow you can.

No controversy - just misunderstanding. Read my post above.
 

--Only one cat file can be loaded each time. This means if you have a cat file for each camera or folder or job you have to reopen each one each time. The way around this is to have one huge cat file. Obviously both methods have their shortfalls.

Not really. The first method is Oldthink, little better than using Bridge. The second way unifies control of your work, and you then use metadata to focus in on jobs.

--The benefit of a cat file over a browser. such as Bridge, is that you can work on adjustments w/o the original RAW file (I think) and also that you always have a catalog of all your images w/o having to carry all of the RAW files with you. SO you could remove images from jobs you are not using to a back up drive from your main work station, while keeping a catalog (and the thumbnails/previews) for filing purposes in order to find them if you do need them.

That is a benefit for that particular workflow. But there are many other benefits - eg the database tells you where images should be, so if you lose a hard drive then LR can assist you in reconstruction while Bridge would be useless. Another might be finding files - imagine you want to dig out all your 5 star pics of a certain subject. A Bridge search across tens of thousands of files will take much longer than a search of a catalogue. Or let's say you want to adjust a group of images which are somehow related but which are spread across folders - eg make b&w versions of all your 5 star wedding pics - again it's a whole lot simpler via LR's catalogue style approach.

Do I have this right? Can someone explain any special means to actually work on RAWs w/o having them on your drive?

See my post above - Quick Develop.

John

[dwdallam]

You were doing well, then started going adrift.
No controversy - just misunderstanding. Read my post above.
 
Not really. The first method is Oldthink, little better than using Bridge. The second way unifies control of your work, and you then use metadata to focus in on jobs.
That is a benefit for that particular workflow. But there are many other benefits - eg the database tells you where images should be, so if you lose a hard drive then LR can assist you in reconstruction while Bridge would be useless. Another might be finding files - imagine you want to dig out all your 5 star pics of a certain subject. A Bridge search across tens of thousands of files will take much longer than a search of a catalogue. Or let's say you want to adjust a group of images which are somehow related but which are spread across folders - eg make b&w versions of all your 5 star wedding pics - again it's a whole lot simpler via LR's catalogue style approach.
See my post above - Quick Develop.

John
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Yep thanks. Can you explain quick develop?

[john beardsworth]

Yep thanks. Can you explain quick develop?
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Just try it - it's in Library. Incremental "stop" changes only, and which update the preview, recording the adjustment in the catalogue so they update the raws when they are attached. Partly designed for quick adjustments when you're still in the keep/trash phase. Very handy for updating loads of images at once (but generally use AutoSync mode in Develop) because LR doesn't load the raws even if attached.

John

[dwdallam]

Just try it - it's in Library. Incremental "stop" changes only, and which update the preview, recording the adjustment in the catalogue so they update the raws when they are attached. Partly designed for quick adjustments when you're still in the keep/trash phase. Very handy for updating loads of images at once (but generally use AutoSync mode in Develop) because LR doesn't load the raws even if attached.

John
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OK I see what you mean. You don't get the sliders and tools other than the basic RAW adjustments. Still, a fantastic tool for taking a catalog with you for laptop adjustments and reviewing a fresh shoot, w/o having all the RAWS with you. Fabulous really!

I've been using it and learning through vids and tutorials on the web, and so far I really like the way it works. There are two things I don't like, however.

1. You can't zoom in %ages, since you have only several zoom aspects in the catalog.
2. The options to use the brush tool for sharpening specific parts of the image, or exposure, etc, will only be available in Lightroom, not ACR or bridge. Or will they? I know the ACR engine is teh same one used by LR2, but will ACR from Bridge show your LR2 brush adjustments?

This is important because if I begin using LR for mask type brush adjustments, then I'd need to KEEP using it to keep my work. And I wouldn't be surprised is CS4 incorporates the LR type cataloging and brush applications. If true, I'd stay with Bridge/ACR to reduce the amount of software I need.

3. Filtering: by file type? Let's say I have my RAWS and PSDs in the same place, which I do. I only want to see the PSDs. Can you filter that way? Also, filtering by those RAWs that have adjustments only?

[john beardsworth]

Is there a way to set options to highlight the frame of all adjusted images automatically or show only those images that have adjustments to them?

There's a sort of badge, you can set the grid to sort by edit time, and you can set up a smart collection to group images with/without adjustments.

2. The options to use the brush tool for sharpening specific parts of the image, or exposure, etc, will only be available in Lightroom, not ACR or bridge. Or will they? I know the ACR engine is teh same one used by LR2, but will ACR from Bridge show your LR2 brush adjustments?

Not sure what I am allowed to say here, but Adobe have previously added new features in LR and cascaded them into ACR/Bridge. The LR interface has been better, more precise and more efficient, but the settings have remained adjustable in ACR.

Remember Quick Develop is in "stop" increments, is rough, and quick - enough to get the whole shoot close to readiness. Develop is more for precise adjustments to individual images, but by switching it into AutoSync mode you can adjust multiple images there. Some people find AutoSync too much for them, while without it other demanding users couldn't process so many images so well.

I'd also recommend you commit to memory a few keyboard shortcuts (look under Help menu). Start with G, E, and D. They're one key to working efficiently with LR.

John