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Author Topic: Leica's new MF system  (Read 331866 times)

Nemo

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« Reply #400 on: September 26, 2008, 06:38:09 pm »

From David Farkas' blog, about Hasselblad lenses:

Quote
I took a look at the new HCD 35-90mm f/4-5.6 zoom lens. Reading about the tech in this lens is interesting. It is only for use with “full frame 48mm” and the designers knowingly created the lens with increased distortion and vignetting. The new Hassy philosophy seems to be that we’ll just fix it in post, a la digital lens correction. Seems a bit fishy, especially at this price ($6,999 USD).

http://www.dfarkas.blogspot.com/

.
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gss

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« Reply #401 on: September 26, 2008, 07:24:55 pm »

Quote
From David Farkas' blog, about Hasselblad lenses:
http://www.dfarkas.blogspot.com/

.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224754\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think people are forgetting that lens design requires balancing the distortions and aberrations that the laws of Physics dictate.  Perhaps the designers of these lenses decided to allow more distortion, which they know they can correct in software, in order to better control another aberration they cannot correct.
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samuel_js

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« Reply #402 on: September 26, 2008, 07:49:58 pm »

David Farkas:

Speaking of fishy… in the pro demo studio area a photographer and food stylist were photographing smelly raw fish. With large LCD suspended from the ceiling for the audience to watch the action top-down it felt more like a cooking show that a photo demonstration. The concept was interesting, but the smell was a bit much.

Obviously this guy is an ignorant. Why do I say that? Because ignorants are so sure of their own truth that they don't even do a little research before they shot.

The fish thing is related to the video shooting (Operation Food) they have had on the Victor website for more than a year.

This type of practice is called good marketing.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 07:52:48 pm by samuel_js »
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Sean Reginald Knight

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« Reply #403 on: September 27, 2008, 04:44:34 am »

Some Swedes do love their surstromming.
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samuel_js

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« Reply #404 on: September 27, 2008, 08:27:40 am »

Quote
Some Swedes do love their surstromming.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224863\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I hope It wasn't that what they were shooting there!  
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jmboss

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« Reply #405 on: September 28, 2008, 03:31:14 pm »

Is there a MSRP or "Street Price" List for the Leica S2 Camera Body, Lenses, Etc. posted yet?

Thanks,

Joe
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teddillard

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« Reply #406 on: September 28, 2008, 04:37:19 pm »

Quote
Is there a MSRP or "Street Price" List for the Leica S2 Camera Body, Lenses, Etc. posted yet?

Thanks,

Joe
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I found $45,000.00 for the body only, from Wired:
[a href=\"http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/09/leica-s2-reinve.html]http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/09/leica-s2-reinve.html[/url]

And a much better story here, and a stab at $30K
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1222235975.html

seriously.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 04:42:25 pm by teddillard »
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Ted Dillard

James R Russell

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« Reply #407 on: September 29, 2008, 11:26:06 am »

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With an August 2009 delivery goal, I doubt any price now would be worthwhile for many reasons.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225262\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Before every photokina the process has always been a flurry of press releases, then during the show a new batch of new press releases about strategic alliances with not a lot of new working product being shown, then months go by and the answer is check with your dealer who will give you a lot of second hand information about what, when, where, how much, how soon, etc. etc. etc.

Then the airwaves go dead for a few more months.  

If Photokina got you hot to buy, you couldn't get most of it today though I'm sure everybody will take a "deposit".

What a wasted sales effort.

I get the impression that Photokina is just a place all the makers and dealers meet to cut deals and except for hasselblad, the only deals anyone cuts is with each other.  I think they'd sell more product if they thought about cutting those deals to the end user.  Maybe Hasselblad is on to something, but knowing the world of medium format the competition will probably just repsond by making a new series of e-mail blasts and pdfs.

It's like a celebrity photo shoot where the photographer, makeup artist, hair stylist and subject are all the stars.  Everybody tosses out names,  talks about the "industry"  says how fab everything is but at the end of the day, they forget they are selling bras, jeans, or shoes.

The process IS the event and becomes more important than selling the actual product.

Consequently Saturday I was at a small sized camera dealer, (I'm talking a one counter store) and it was packed with people buying Nikon D300's and lenses.  And not just the cheap lenses either, but those new Nikon zooms and the 200 F2.   Every person was leaving with gold boxes under their arms and if the Canon 5d2 was for sale I'm sure their would have been just as many black boxes going out the door.

If this is a down economy you wouldn't know it by watching the activity in this small store.

One of the customers was a ceo of a large corporation and and it didn't seem money was an issue. He asked about the Leica and the dealer just said it's not available for at least a year, he asked about the hasselblad and the dealer said they don't carry them.  I doubt if he knows the name Phase, Sinar or Leaf.  So he bought a D3 and a bunch of lenses and he did this in about 10 minutes. About $18,000 in ten minutes.

JR
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Snook

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« Reply #408 on: September 29, 2008, 11:38:25 am »

Quote
Before every photokina the process has always been a flurry of press releases, then during the show a new batch of new press releases about strategic alliances with not a lot of new working product being shown, then months go by and the answer is check with your dealer who will give you a lot of second hand information about what, when, where, how much, how soon, etc. etc. etc.

Then the airwaves go dead for a few more months. 

If Photokina got you hot to buy, you couldn't get most of it today though I'm sure everybody will take a "deposit".

What a wasted sales effort.

I get the impression that Photokina is just a place all the makers and dealers meet to cut deals and except for hasselblad, the only deals anyone cuts is with each other.  I think they'd sell more product if they thought about cutting those deals to the end user.  Maybe Hasselblad is on to something, but knowing the world of medium format the competition will probably just repsond by making a new series of e-mail blasts and pdfs.

It's like a celebrity photo shoot where the photographer, makeup artist, hair stylist and subject are all the stars.  Everybody tosses out names,  talks about the "industry"  says how fab everything is but at the end of the day, they forget they are selling bras, jeans, or shoes.

The process IS the event and becomes more important than selling the actual product.

Consequently Saturday I was at a small sized camera dealer, (I'm talking a one counter store) and it was packed with people buying Nikon D300's and lenses.  And not just the cheap lenses either, but those new Nikon zooms and the 200 F2.   Every person was leaving with gold boxes under their arms and if the Canon 5d2 was for sale I'm sure their would have been just as many black boxes going out the door.

If this is a down economy you wouldn't know it by watching the activity in this small store.

One of the customers was a ceo of a large corporation and and it didn't seem money was an issue. He asked about the Leica and the dealer just said it's not available for at least a year, he asked about the hasselblad and the dealer said they don't carry them.  I doubt if he knows the name Phase, Sinar or Leaf.  So he bought a D3 and a bunch of lenses and he did this in about 10 minutes. About $18,000 in ten minutes.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225520\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Maybe just a false security as they seem have bailed out the corporate bone heads who screwed everything up.
If congress would not have bailed them out, I am not so sure so many tiny gold boxes would have been flying out the dorr..:+}
Snook
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Nemo

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« Reply #409 on: September 29, 2008, 02:10:32 pm »

Kaufmann said "we will try to be at less than 15.000 euros".
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eronald

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« Reply #410 on: September 29, 2008, 04:07:15 pm »

Quote
Kaufmann said "we will try to be at less than 15.000 euros".
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Leica told me they would try to match Hassy on price, at equivalent pixels.

Edmund
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Rob C

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« Reply #411 on: September 29, 2008, 04:16:25 pm »

Well, nobody got bailed out today; maybe that, too, is just another mind-game...

Rob C

eronald

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« Reply #412 on: September 29, 2008, 04:19:50 pm »

Quote
Well, nobody got bailed out today; maybe that, too, is just another mind-game...

Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225609\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What, you're miffed that America's little excursion into socialism has been delayed ?

I thought we in Europe had a lock on socialism now that the soviets and china have given up on it.



Edmund
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 04:20:06 pm by eronald »
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hubell

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« Reply #413 on: September 29, 2008, 07:00:16 pm »

Quote
Leica told me they would try to match Hassy on price, at equivalent pixels.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The price point that Leica says it would like to meet---a Hasselblad with comparable MP--- would be the price of a Hasselblad H3DII-39, which has now been educed to US $22,000. By way of comparison, the Phase/Mamiya camera with a P45+ back is $32,500, the Leaf AFI 7 is $37,500 (or $38,800 with a 90 deg. finder), the Sinar Hy6 with 33MP back is $32,000(price of 90 degree finder=????). I wonder if the Leica CEO was thinking of the "old" price of an H3DII-39.

Nemo

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« Reply #414 on: September 29, 2008, 07:17:59 pm »

The price of the Hasselblad H3DIII-31 is 12.000 euros.

Considering the last (reduced) prices of Hasselblad prices, Leica should place the S2 price between 10.000 and 15.000 euros.
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Nick Rains

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« Reply #415 on: September 29, 2008, 08:01:57 pm »

There's been a lot of ranting about high priced Leicas, MFDBs and dentists etc...

Do you think Leica might actually realise that there are a LOT more people who will buy a high end camera purely as a status symbol (think Rolex demographic) than there are professional photographers who can justify a 50K+ camera purely on ROI criteria?

One of the 'eye openers' on one of my recent workshops was the gear owned by some of my clients, in this case a dentist (really) and an ad agency owner. They had all the best gear, and I mean all. Between them they had well over 200K in gear - H3D2-39s, D3s, 1Ds3s. M8s and loads of lenses. They were interested in photography, had the money to indulge themselves and like to own 'the best' stuff. Nothing wrong with that.

I had no camera with me, apart from a loan 1Ds3 in case of breakdowns, and my co-instructor had a Mamiya Press (!).

I say 'so what' if a camera costs a bucketload of cash? Buy it if you can afford it, don't if you can't. Pros do not need the best, they need the most appropriate for their business - the right gear is not necessarily the best gear.

I wonder if there is a forum for taxi drivers bemoaning the prices of the latest BMW, whilst they drive Fords.
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BrianSmith

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« Reply #416 on: September 29, 2008, 08:15:59 pm »

Quote
The price of the Hasselblad H3DIII-31 is 12.000 euros.

Considering the last (reduced) prices of Hasselblad prices, Leica should place the S2 price between 10.000 and 15.000 euros.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225654\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm guessing that since the S2 is 37.5mp,  Leica is looking at the H3DIII-39 as their pricing benchmark.

I hope that Phase and Leaf are paying attention...
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Nemo

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« Reply #417 on: September 30, 2008, 11:13:16 am »

The H3DIII-31 has the same sensor size than the S2 (more or less).
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BJL

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« Reply #418 on: September 30, 2008, 11:31:14 am »

Quote
I'm guessing that since the S2 is 37.5mp,  Leica is looking at the H3DIII-39 as their pricing benchmark.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225664\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I expect Kodak and Dalsa to offer their new 6 micron pixel technology in the smaller 44x33mm formats too, producing about 40MP (7333x5500) sensors similar in size and production cost to the 45x30mm sensor of the S2. And Kodak will probably equip its new 44x33mm sensors with micro-lenses, as in its current 44x33mm sensors and the new 45x30mm for Leica.

Then the S2 will probably compete with new 44x33mm models, at least on production costs and sensor performance. But the Leica S system might have a big advantage from its better match of lens format and focal length choices to sensor format, compared to using a 44x33mm sensor with a lens system adapted to 56x42mm or even 56x56mm.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 11:32:16 am by BJL »
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Nemo

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« Reply #419 on: October 01, 2008, 05:44:20 am »

Quote
I expect Kodak and Dalsa to offer their new 6 micron pixel technology in the smaller 44x33mm formats too, producing about 40MP (7333x5500) sensors similar in size and production cost to the 45x30mm sensor of the S2. And Kodak will probably equip its new 44x33mm sensors with micro-lenses, as in its current 44x33mm sensors and the new 45x30mm for Leica.

Then the S2 will probably compete with new 44x33mm models, at least on production costs and sensor performance. But the Leica S system might have a big advantage from its better match of lens format and focal length choices to sensor format, compared to using a 44x33mm sensor with a lens system adapted to 56x42mm or even 56x56mm.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225775\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That is a good point.

The price differences between formats will not be too large in any case, but sensor size and lenses format make a difference for sure.
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