Leica's new MF system

[Christopher]

I'm bored with this more megapixel stuff.   It's fine, allows an art director more cropping, or maybe the retoucher a little more data to work with, but there is nothing that amazing by this camera, other than it has a Leica logo.

I'm sure the lenses will be sharp and the build quality will be excellent, but if the m8 is any indication the lenses will need calibration and it will be 5 firmware updates until they get the color right.

But to be fair, I and others should wait to see what the official announcement is.

I spoke to a camera retailer the other day on a lighting purchase and mentioned the new announcements coming out at photokina. The salesperson said it's a shame that all of these cameras are so expensive, but what can a photographer do, their clients demand the very biggest and very best.

Well, I was kind of taken back by that because it's been three years since any client has asked me the file size or type of camera I use and even then by the time I explained it was obvious they really weren't that concerned.

So I asked the sales person, name me the client that demands more megapixels and she kind of stopped and said, well, uh I've heard it from a lot of photographers. 

Well, I've heard that the moon is made of cheese but that doesn't make it so.

I'm not really dissing this camera and in a strange nostalgic way I hope it has success, but in reality, just reading that flicker announcement I don't see what this camera really does that is any different than what we presently have.

But, if Lecia is gong to have success with this camera, they need to hit a decent price point and most importantly they need to meet all of their delivery deadlines on lenses and software because if they don't it will just become an interesting footnote.

JR
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Yes I wish Leica success, but I'm not so sure anymore. In a way I can't believe they really can pull something like that off. After the m8 disaster. (Yes I have one myself...) If this camera would come to the market with a price around 10.000 it could be a success, as long as the rest holds together. Nobody will buy in such a system if the camera costs 20.000 and every lens is around additional 3000-4000. If that's the case we could already buy Leaf, Sinar or Phase One.

[EricWHiss]

The DMR was a bit more stable than the M8 was on launch at least IMHO - certainly I have not had any trouble with mine and even though people bitched about firmware upgrades it worked fine with the first version and just got better with the upgrades.  I did have a problem with my R8 body but then that was used and like 15yrs old.   What I hated and I almost dumped Leica over was the 3 month wait to have the R8 serviced for just a shutter problem. That's totally inexcusable.  Whatever  Leica does, their service system needs a huge overhaul. Professionals who depend on their gear simply can not wait like that.   I hope Dr. Kaufmann addresses the service issue in his announcement today.

[narikin]

if this is the "S2" what was the "S1" ?

[Nemo]

Here you have the first picture of the new camera:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29782425@N08/...015170/sizes/l/

[paulmoorestudio]

if this is the "S2" what was the "S1" ?
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[a href=\"http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00GqzV]http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00GqzV[/url]

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I'm sure the lenses will be sharp and the build quality will be excellent, but if the m8 is any indication the lenses will need calibration and it will be 5 firmware updates until they get the color right.
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The DMR must be the reference for this new camera. Except in terms of high ISO performance its archives are still slightly better than the M8 ones. If Leica can make a 35mm size camera with a bigger sensor, an image quality one or two steps above that of the DMR (specially in what is low light performance) and a good set of lenses at a reasonable high price they'll have something. Not something revolutionary but something interesting for a lot of photographers.

I'm curious about the AF because this is something new for Leica (in a pro camera)... Of course I don't expect a D3 AFperformance level but something faster than actual MF and with more than one focus point could make some difference.

[Conner999]

Pricing is RUMORED at Euro 25-30,000

[marcwilson]

Very high image quality (i.e. mf d.b.) in a portable body + lens combo is a great addition to the tools available to us but there does come a price point, especially in the current economic climate, where you want the high expense to be more flexible..i.e. usable both as dslr and on a shift camera, as almost all medium format solution currently offer.


The current all in one 35mm dslr solutions work in tandem very well with mfdb's due not only to what they can do but their lower price grouping.
Tying such expense into one system that removes the flexibility of a digital back may or may not be a winner for many.

That said, it can also be seen as a digital version of say a medium format rangefinder such as the mamiya 7 camera..not because it's a rangefinder because of course it isn't, but due to higher than 35mm format image quality in a very portable fairly simple package with exceptional glass.

that said its all still rumour of course!

[Christopher]

Pricing is RUMORED at Euro 25-30,000
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223284\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, yes if that is true they don't really have to announce it. There are far better products in this price range.

[eronald]

Well, yes if that is true they don't really have to announce it. There are far better products in this price range.
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I bet the Contax guys are going tobe really unhappy if this takes off. All they needed to do was put the Contax back in production.

Edmund

[Graham Mitchell]

I bet the Contax guys are going tobe really unhappy if this takes off. All they needed to do was put the Contax back in production.

Edmund
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Did the Contax ever have a tilt/shift lens? An ultrawide? This system is a hybrid between focal plane shutter and leaf shutters, which solves the biggest flaw with the Contax system - the very slow flash sync. I suppose Contax could have developed the same way. Blame Kyocera!

[narikin]

Well, yes if that is true they don't really have to announce it. There are far better products in this price range.
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agreed - apart from seriously wealthy hobbyists, it wont fly at the same price as an H3 or Phase P45+, which are proven pro workhorses, with higher resolution bullet proof backs and good software workflows, all up and running right now.

if they can come in between US$15-25,000 for camera with standard lens, they might get enough market share.

I'd price the basic outfit well, and then look to make higher margin on the lenses, as everyone's going to buy a couple of those.

[Snook]

Did the Contax ever have a tilt/shift lens? An ultrawide? This system is a hybrid between focal plane shutter and leaf shutters, which solves the biggest flaw with the Contax system - the very slow flash sync. I suppose Contax could have developed the same way. Blame Kyocera!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223296\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Wasn't it you that said they could not make 35mm leaf shutter lens.. And why would they..
I guess this makes my point!!!

Why wouldn't they , has always been my point
Snook

[Graham Mitchell]

Sorry, everyone, it seems the news feed is on a new thread: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/...nt-22-09-a.html

Wasn't it you that said they could not make 35mm leaf shutter lens
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223299\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No, it was me who said Canon would need to revise the EOS mount to introduce leaf shutter lenses. Leica seems to have gone autofocus, larger format and leaf-shutter at the same time, so  it was time for a new mount and then they can support every possible feature they need.

[gwhitf]

what is the foto-z referee guy gonna do now? is this camera 35 or MF? he's in a quandry huh?

and reichmann now has to create a new category called "35 looking, but 120 shooting", next to the ComboCam category?

all this just a bunch of buzz to get in the way of critical thinking and image making.

and with this economy, there couldn't be worse time to ask three or four grand for a normal lens. they just missed the boat; too much, too late.

[Graham Mitchell]

what is the foto-z referee guy gonna do now? is this camera 35 or MF? he's in a quandry huh?
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Why would this be a 35mm camera? We clearly have a new medium format contender, and that doesn't happen every day!

[James R Russell]

I bet the Contax guys are going tobe really unhappy if this takes off. All they needed to do was put the Contax back in production.

Edmund
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Nobody is going to be upset.  

Especially me because not only do my Contax's still work fine, but they have paid for themselves many times over.

The thing is before anyone drops 30, 40, 50 k on a new system there needs to be some clarity.

Everyone gave Phase a ration of trouble for their roadmap, but it was a good idea as long as they lived to the promises and deadlines.

Let's face it, adding or switching a system is expensive and takes a learning curve which takes time which isalso expensive.

Before anyone makes that investment, a company like Rollei, Phase, Leica or Leaf should make it clear they are in this for the long haul and what is promised will be delivered.

Same with service.  My Phase backs have never gone down, but I wonder if they can be fixed in a day like MAC does with LOA.  

Consequently one of my Leica lenses has been in repair for about 3 months.

The financial events of the last few days make it clear that even the largest of companies can disappear and I doubt if any government would ever bail our a camera company.

JR

[James R Russell]

Why would this be a 35mm camera? We clearly have a new medium format contender, and that doesn't happen every day!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223304\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You really think this is medium format . . . why because the hole in the back of the camera is bigger than a 35mm?

I think I would call that miniature medium format.

There are a lot of people that don't believe 645 is medium format and in fact except for the new soon to be announced phase pee sixty five plus none of the "medium format backs really qualify as medium format, even the puny 645 format.

JR

[Graham Mitchell]

You really think this is medium format . . . why because the hole in the back of the camera is bigger than a 35mm?

I think I would call that miniature medium format.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223308\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'd put it in the same category as a Phase P30, P18, Sinar 65, Hasselbald 31MP, etc as the sensor is about the same size. Your call.

[Snook]

what is the foto-z referee guy gonna do now? is this camera 35 or MF? he's in a quandry huh?

and reichmann now has to create a new category called "35 looking, but 120 shooting", next to the ComboCam category?

all this just a bunch of buzz to get in the way of critical thinking and image making.

and with this economy, there couldn't be worse time to ask three or four grand for a normal lens. they just missed the boat; too much, too late.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223303\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Your absolutely right...

I would like to meet the bonehead who would spend that much money on this camera..
I know there out there. But they must have a whole lot of extra $$$ lay around.

I am acutally thinking about going back to 35mm....:+}
Where I live they just do not appreciate MF and I could do with out the cost and hassle..

Anybody looking for a P30 /RZII/AFDII set up... check out the For Sale section here soon...

Snook