Who makes the best backs?

[henrikfoto]

I know this is a topic that irritates some people here, but I would like to collect experiences from everybody who has tested more than one makers backs.

I have used many different backs from 4 makers and have a clear favorite.
I like the Phase One backs best. I feel the files are cleaner, crisper and sharper.
I know it´s said the Phase uses more sharpening etc. etc, but after sharpening f. exs. the
Sinar files they still don´t look as good to me.

What do you people think?
Please let´s be open about what we think. I feel too many people in here are afraid to talk free...

[Studio12NYC]

"Afraid to talk free"

You haven't been reading these forums!

This place gets shy of throwing punches.

Who CARES!!

Go and shoot and what ever works for your works for you.  Stop wasting time with these debates!

[henrikfoto]

"Afraid to talk free"

You haven't been reading these forums!

This place gets shy of throwing punches.

Who CARES!!

Go and shoot and what ever works for your works for you.  Stop wasting time with these debates!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211604\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It´s exactly these [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']"punches"[/span] who stops a lot of people from talking freely.

[RobertJ]

The Leaf Aptus 75 and Sinar emotion 75 backs are the best to my eyes, after looking at Phase/Leaf/Sinar/Hasselblad files.

For Phase, I like the P30+ files the best out of all their products.

But now we have all these new products coming out, so my opinions are outdated and obsolete.  Damn you technology.  

[henrikfoto]

The Leaf Aptus 75 and Sinar emotion 75 backs are the best to my eyes, after looking at Phase/Leaf/Sinar/Hasselblad files.

For Phase, I like the P30+ files the best out of all their products.

But now we have all these new products coming out, so my opinions are outdated and obsolete.  Damn you technology. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211611\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Can I ask what you normally photograph?

[Jack Flesher]

I shoot the Phase, and I agree it produces a phenomenally detailed file. But I like the files I see from the latest Hasselblad, Leaf and Sinar too.  IMO these backs are all so good that the features of each back are more important to the end user than the actual file characteristics.  

Since everybody's key needs are different, I think a discussion of UI, features, benefits and shortcomings of each back is probably a better use of bandwidth.

Cheers,

[RobertJ]

I have a feeling you're thinking I shoot people because I said Leaf, but actually, it's tabletop photography.

The reason I like Leaf better, is because every Phase file I've opened has been littered with color noise, at base ISO.  Nothing that you can't get rid of with a little noise removal slider, and I've played with many settings in C1, I don't use defaults, but compared to Leaf, is the excessive chrominance noise because of heat?  Kodak sensor?  Don't know.

How is it that the leaf files were free of color noise, even in the deep shadows? Amazing.  This was looking at both files in C1 with the same settings (I converted the leaf file to DNG and edited the DNG in a hex editor so that C14 could read it).

However, lately, playing with Lightroom, which I used to hate for Phase files, I've gotten perfect results from Phase files.  I would honestly go with either back.  In terms of sharpness and image size of course, it's hard to go wrong with any of these guys.

[rueyloon]

haha, let's muddy the water.

The older Kodak proback has given me very good colors straight off the camera. Almost perfect tones.

[TMARK]

The secret?  MegaVision, hands down.

[klane]

The secret?  MegaVision, hands down.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211637\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Beat me to it.  

[Graham Mitchell]

I know it´s said the Phase uses more sharpening etc. etc, but after sharpening f. exs. the
Sinar files they still don´t look as good to me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211598\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Did you use the same lens with both backs? Same aperture? Same camera body? Did you remove the variables of mirror slap and hand shaking? Did you apply sharpening to the Sinar file?

Please don't fall for the default sharpening trick. It's a bit like Bose selling their stereos with a bass and treble boost to impress the listener in the first minute in the shop, but it's not what you want long term.

I've sharpened up a crop here. I don't see how you could ask for more detail or sharpness:

Original:



Crop:

[amsp]

The reason I like Leaf better, is because every Phase file I've opened has been littered with color noise, at base ISO.  Nothing that you can't get rid of with a little noise removal slider, and I've played with many settings in C1, I don't use defaults, but compared to Leaf, is the excessive chrominance noise because of heat?  Kodak sensor?  Don't know.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211621\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You're joking right? I have a first generation P25 and there is NO chroma or luminescence noise at 50 (base) or 100 ISO, even 200 is pretty clean. Higher ISO 400 and 800 has visible noise which can be removed effectively if you use the right settings in C1.

[Graham Mitchell]

Henrik, to answer your original question, it seems to me that there is much more difference between the camera platforms than the backs. Find the camera you want first. If it's a Hasselblad, then you may as well get the H3 with Hasselblad back. If it's the Hy6, then you choose between the Leaf and Sinar back. If it's the Mamiya or Contax, then your choice is wide open.

[guano]

*Agrees with foto-z*

Back-wise, I've owned an Aptus 75 and now an eMotion 75LV and have used a P45 and P30. Each has its quirks in terms of use, but nothing that would put me off buying into the system. Having compared Phase, Leaf and Sinar files with different RAW converters, I'd happily take any of them. I can't comment on Hasselblad, but I'd wager that I'd be happy with them too.

The thing however, that swung it for me is the engineering that Sinar have put into their version of the Hy6. The revolving adapter - amazing. The way the Hy6 handles and just works is refreshing as well.

Along with Leaf's Afi, we're ready for 6x6 sensors (yes please) and the quality of the lens line up has surprised me greatly (I've just been using the Schneider 90mm f4 - wow!)

Also, Sinar have been listening to user requests: the improved screen on the 75LV - much needed and much better. Better performance at higher ISO - yes, although a colleague has tested this more than I have. Service in the UK - fantastic.

Back-wise, I think any of us would largely-speaking be happy with any of them. The grass is always greener on the other side, but really, to reiterate foto-z's point: play with the cameras on offer; see what works for you; then get the back.

Apologies for the longer-than-expected post.

[fpoole]

This is a bit of a foolish argument at this point in MFB back development but here is one opinion.

All the backs are good.  What is the "best" back.  I think everyone agrees it the one that suits your type of work and the level of quality your clients expect.

For me, my main $$$ come from still life and nothing beats the Sinar system.  I use a 54H on a P3.  Image quality is beyond belief in 4-shot mode with HR lenses.  Art Directors love working with live video, and my personal experience with dealer and distributor support has been excellent. When it comes time to upgrade it will be another Sinarback without a doubt. You have to think it terms of the whole system.

Disclaimer: this is just my own personal experience.

Best,
Frank Poole
www.frankpoole.com

[henrikfoto]

Henrik, to answer your original question, it seems to me that there is much more difference between the camera platforms than the backs. Find the camera you want first. If it's a Hasselblad, then you may as well get the H3 with Hasselblad back. If it's the Hy6, then you choose between the Leaf and Sinar back. If it's the Mamiya or Contax, then your choice is wide open.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211692\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That is my problem at this point. The back I like best is the Phase one P45+ and the camera I would like to use is the Sinar Hy6. That combination is not possible (yet). Anybody who knows a company that could make a custum adapter for this use?

[henrikfoto]

Did you use the same lens with both backs? Same aperture? Same camera body? Did you remove the variables of mirror slap and hand shaking? Did you apply sharpening to the Sinar file?

Please don't fall for the default sharpening trick. It's a bit like Bose selling their stereos with a bass and treble boost to impress the listener in the first minute in the shop, but it's not what you want long term.

I've sharpened up a crop here. I don't see how you could ask for more detail or sharpness:

Original:



Crop:


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211680\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nice shot, but to behounest I am not very impressed with the details in the crop. I think the P45+ would show better sharpness and cleanness. But of course thats just my eyes.

[henrikfoto]

Sorry, posted the same twice.

[NBP]

Who CARES!!

Go and shoot and what ever works for your works for you.  Stop wasting time with these debates!

Quite.

Although people always induldge the OP.

Hey-ho.

[Plekto]

Gotta go with MegaVision as well.  Doubly so for black and white. Pricey, though.