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Author Topic: Who loves their ZD ?  (Read 11629 times)

grappa

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Who loves their ZD ?
« on: July 23, 2008, 03:29:51 pm »

I sent mine in to Mamiya bc of soft focus,but I am wondering if anyone is terribly happy with their ZD.  Are the ZD backs really commercially viable or are we just getting a cheap back and fooling ourselves ?
 I hope mine comes back and surprises me but it's going to have to be much better than it was and not just a little tuned up.
 I read the review on the associated site and it scares me. Maybe mirror slap or something is really a problem.
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Mort54

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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2008, 03:37:42 pm »

Quote
I sent mine in to Mamiya bc of soft focus....
I'm not sure sending your ZD back in will fix what is probably a focus problem. It's possible the back frame has gotten warped, and doesn't place the sensor at the focus plane properly, but a much more likely scenario is a problem in the focus sensor in your body, or a misalignment of the bodies focus sensor or focus screen.
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Paul2660

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Who loves their ZD ?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2008, 04:12:48 pm »

If it's mirror slap, that has really nothing to do with the ZD, but the 645 body.  It has been written that the Mamiya AFDII has a strong mirror slap but I haven't noticed any problems in shots that were hand held at faster shutter speeds.  You might consider having the body worked on.  Mamiya US has a ZD back to test with and could work it with your body to see if the mirror could be buffered somehow, if you are in the US.

I do have a problem with a bump effect on vertical shots when on a tripod using mirror lock.  Still trying to figure that out.   The bump effect is totally different that a soft overall focus, it's a unique looking upwards shadow of most object's edges.

Paul C
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JDBFreeheel

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Who loves their ZD ?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2008, 04:29:13 pm »

Quote
I sent mine in to Mamiya bc of soft focus,but I am wondering if anyone is terribly happy with their ZD.  Are the ZD backs really commercially viable or are we just getting a cheap back and fooling ourselves ?
 I hope mine comes back and surprises me but it's going to have to be much better than it was and not just a little tuned up.
 I read the review on the associated site and it scares me. Maybe mirror slap or something is really a problem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210220\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Love?  Well, no.  Certainly not.  But, it has been a great tool to get me involved in Digital MF at a price point that is, at least relatively, inexpensive.  It's a starter back in a very expensive realm.  I don't know if Mamiya planned it this way, but it has become a "entry version" into a system that will continue (If I stay) to produce profit for Mamiya as my kit grows.  I am now, already, contemplating buying into a Phase system, with the Phase version of the AFD III.  And of course that will mean buying more expensive new, digital Mamiya glass, etc.

I've had both great shots come out of my ZD back and some really lousy shots come out of it (and of course many more that were certainly user error   ) but all in all, I've enjoyed it, tolerating its shortcomings.  My ZD back is also now visiting Mamiya USA in NY for some testing of small issues, but I'm not really worried.  It'll either be fixed or replaced and then I'll have it back.

In the meantime, I get to decide how to move forward.  Maybe I keep it as a backup to a newer Phase One or Leaf back, or one that I use in harsher conditions or maybe I'll sell it to someone else who wants to get into digital MF and doesn't have $15-25K just yet.  

So, to answer your question, no, I'm not sure anyone loves the ZD.  It does some things fine but can't match the higher end gear MF gear.  I still can get better DR, color rendition, and detail than a 35mm DSLR.  It's user experience isn't as fluid as Nikon or Canon, but I'm not sure any system in MF is yet.  That's what folks are clamoring for and it will come, eventually.

Yes, there is a bunch of mirror slap, as compared to a DSLR.  Remember, it's a bigger mirror   .

My suggestion is to consider how you shoot, and try to make some adjustments to isolate the possible problems.  Use a tripod and see if the soft focus disappears.  Shoot with the mirror Up function and see how that works.  Then you can slowly re-adjust back into a more familiar style that is aligned to you.  I had to do this for a while.  I first expected MF photography to "feel" the same as with my previous Nikon DSLRs, and it doesn't.  

But it's great fun, nonetheless, just different.

Best of luck and keep us posted on your ZD's visit to Mamiya.

-Josh
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 04:32:44 pm by JDBFreeheel »
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Justinr

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Who loves their ZD ?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2008, 04:56:25 pm »

I would endorse just about everything Josh has said. It can be a magnificent tool in the right environment but start pushing at it's envelope and the problems start crashing in on your world thick and fast. I think we must also realise that all ZD's are used in conjunction with the AFD (anyone mount it on anything else?) and the problems I have noted in another thread are perhaps as much to do with the camera as the back. I don't feel though that it should simply be considered a studio or landscape camera, it can do more and to make it work outside of it's comfort zone is an exercise that can only make better photographers of those who drive it hard. I've used mine to catch action shots as well as taken it to sea (well, Cork Harbour anyway, see pages 4,5 &6 at http://justinseye.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=4 ) I certainly much rather use it than a dSLR, and I am finding it hard to accept that the Canon may still have a role to play in my life and even worse I may still have to invest in a better body than the 30D which I have suffered with up until now.


Justin.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 04:57:11 pm by Justinr »
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rweissman

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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2008, 06:22:56 pm »

A few comments:

Before buying a ZD, I tried a very used H1 and an equally old Aptus 22. I ultimately traded that in for the ZD because of the weight of the H1, the expiration of any upgrade path from Hasselblad (I think body upgrade programs expired at the end of February) and the expense of the Hassy glass. In retrospect, comparatively speaking, the H1/Aptus was a joy to use with no significant problems.  I could shoot with confidence in a way that I can't with the ZD.

And, of course, I was kidding myself about the comparative cost of glass, since Mamiya's newer lenses are all in Hasselblad's $ zipcode.  The CONCEPT, though, of the ZD is wonderful and it has certainly reinvigorated the low end of the MFDB market.

I have had a range of issues with my ZD system (noted on earlier threads). Some have been fixed by Mamiya (whose US support is excellent). But I really miss the reliability (apart from pilot error, I rarely blew a shot with the Hassy/APtus combo) and consistency and 'what you shot is what you got' sense of confidence with the Hassy combo.

I, too, am trading up to a faster back (Aptus 65 in my case) with better overall performance and moving up to the AFD III, too. Note that the AFD III sales literature says, explicitly, that the AFD III has improved, more reliable communication between body and digital back--implying that things could be better with the AFD II.  That, alone, is a big selling point for the AFD III, for me. I am grateful to the ZD for luring me into the whole medium format 'thing'--it was the ZD that inspired my original use of the Hassy.  But I view the ZD more as a 'teaser' more than a long term solution. I expect that a follow-on ZD II would probably offer the product that gets it right more than the original ZD.


Quote
I would endorse just about everything Josh has said. It can be a magnificent tool in the right environment but start pushing at it's envelope and the problems start crashing in on your world thick and fast. I think we must also realise that all ZD's are used in conjunction with the AFD (anyone mount it on anything else?) and the problems I have noted in another thread are perhaps as much to do with the camera as the back. I don't feel though that it should simply be considered a studio or landscape camera, it can do more and to make it work outside of it's comfort zone is an exercise that can only make better photographers of those who drive it hard. I've used mine to catch action shots as well as taken it to sea (well, Cork Harbour anyway, see pages 4,5 &6 at http://justinseye.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=4 ) I certainly much rather use it than a dSLR, and I am finding it hard to accept that the Canon may still have a role to play in my life and even worse I may still have to invest in a better body than the 30D which I have suffered with up until now.
Justin.
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billthecat

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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2008, 11:29:12 pm »

I love the image quality of the ZD. Of course I need to shoot ISO 50 and keep exposures faster than a few seconds.

I was able to pick up lens for the Mamiya cheaply at KEH.com and Ebay and got most of what I want, 35,50,55,120macro,150, 210.

I have more complaints about the AFDII, it can be slow to lock focus, if I'm trying to take photos of people they need to stay fairly still. The ZD back is slow but so is the AFDII. And sometimes they don't work together.

The mirror slap is not as bad as I had thought. I got the flash bracket and use it to hold the AFDII which helps a lot to hold it steady, as I prefer not to use a tripod.

I used it for wedding formals last weekend and I was lucky that it didn't lock up and everything went smoothly.

Bill
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rweissman

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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2008, 09:28:17 pm »

I've now had a few days of use of the Leaf Aptus 65 and it is simply a whole different ball game, compared to the ZD back.  In about 400 shots, I have had to reset the Mamiya ADFD II only twice (and it reset almost instantly via the body'sbattery compartment)--and those two resets were preceded by other body-related issues not connected with the back.  But beyond this (and Mamiya did replace a defective ZD back with a new one so this is less of an issue for Mamiya than I first experienced), the buffer wait times are much less an issue, shooting is less constrained and ISO 400 is usable (even if not competitive wth Canon's 35mm offerings.)

Leaf files are a joy to work with and the whole experience, so far, has been terrific. I have no color cast issues at all, color is spot-on, whether in Leaf Capture, Lightroom or Aperture.  The sense of ease and the confidence in your ability to shoot and process within the overall constraints of of the MFDB medium are great. I can focus on the shot rather than on the equipment. I'm still hoping to upgrade to the AFD III for improved autofocus and camera/back communications but the Leaf part of the equation has surpassed my  expectations. I realize that it is a very big price step-up, but for me, it has been worth it.

Quote
A few comments:

Before buying a ZD, I tried a very used H1 and an equally old Aptus 22. I ultimately traded that in for the ZD because of the weight of the H1, the expiration of any upgrade path from Hasselblad (I think body upgrade programs expired at the end of February) and the expense of the Hassy glass. In retrospect, comparatively speaking, the H1/Aptus was a joy to use with no significant problems.  I could shoot with confidence in a way that I can't with the ZD.

And, of course, I was kidding myself about the comparative cost of glass, since Mamiya's newer lenses are all in Hasselblad's $ zipcode.  The CONCEPT, though, of the ZD is wonderful and it has certainly reinvigorated the low end of the MFDB market.

I have had a range of issues with my ZD system (noted on earlier threads). Some have been fixed by Mamiya (whose US support is excellent). But I really miss the reliability (apart from pilot error, I rarely blew a shot with the Hassy/APtus combo) and consistency and 'what you shot is what you got' sense of confidence with the Hassy combo.

I, too, am trading up to a faster back (Aptus 65 in my case) with better overall performance and moving up to the AFD III, too. Note that the AFD III sales literature says, explicitly, that the AFD III has improved, more reliable communication between body and digital back--implying that things could be better with the AFD II.  That, alone, is a big selling point for the AFD III, for me. I am grateful to the ZD for luring me into the whole medium format 'thing'--it was the ZD that inspired my original use of the Hassy.  But I view the ZD more as a 'teaser' more than a long term solution. I expect that a follow-on ZD II would probably offer the product that gets it right more than the original ZD.
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ivan muller

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Who loves their ZD ?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2008, 11:02:19 am »

hi,
Actually I like my ZDcamera a lot. Big viewfinder, big files, affordable lenses, my old old 300mm f5.6 was bought for about 150usd, sharp enough for that price. Make regular very nice 90cm x 135cm prints on canvas. Hand holdable and relatively compact.

Would like a bigger buffer(but seldom need it) and  lower noise above 125iso. Have had mine since about June 2006 and never any trouble.

My 150AFmm's shutter had to be replaced recently, six weeks turnaround(from RSA to Japan) and cost (with taxes etc etc) half the price of a new lens. My most used lens is the 50mm shift. Use it with a pan head and two to three stiches gives huge files and wider angle with shift!

Regards, Ivan
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Quentin

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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2008, 11:33:30 am »

The ZD camera has been great.  Some limitations but in a world of insane pricing for new MF products, it has been an affordable alternative with most of the performance of more expensive products.  What's not to like?

Complete mistake for Mamiya, of course.  They should have concentrated  much earlier on developing the ZD back for their installed camera user base.  

I doubt we will see a ZD II camera.  It would cost too much to develop for too small a market (and the MF digital market is miniscule)  Let Phase concentrate on digital backs and Mamiya onm cameras, lenses, and possibly a ZD II back, maybe a rebranded Phase One product.

Quentin
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 11:34:39 am by Quentin »
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Justinr

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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2008, 04:16:27 pm »

Well I certainly still love mine despite the well documented shortcomings on several threads of late. Even one or two from the fashion show did sort of work-

Justin
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 04:20:55 pm by Justinr »
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grappa

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Who loves their ZD ?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 08:04:45 am »

Quote
I sent mine in to Mamiya bc of soft focus,but I am wondering if anyone is terribly happy with their ZD.  Are the ZD backs really commercially viable or are we just getting a cheap back and fooling ourselves ?
 I hope mine comes back and surprises me but it's going to have to be much better than it was and not just a little tuned up.
 I read the review on the associated site and it scares me. Maybe mirror slap or something is really a problem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210220\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
At first they said they could find nothing wrong with my back as far as focus issues but after I told them that I had tried the back on several cameras they went back and looked again.
 After a few days I was sent a new back which so far is performing perfectly. Not only are the photos sharp as they should be but it seems like the ISO performance is better. Maybe the ISO part is just in my head ?
 Bottom line is that I really like this ZD back.
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Justinr

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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 10:33:56 am »

Quote
At first they said they could find nothing wrong with my back as far as focus issues but after I told them that I had tried the back on several cameras they went back and looked again.
 After a few days I was sent a new back which so far is performing perfectly. Not only are the photos sharp as they should be but it seems like the ISO performance is better. Maybe the ISO part is just in my head ?
 Bottom line is that I really like this ZD back.
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How does one prove the point about soft focus? I haven't got access to any other bodies to compare with but the sharpness is less than I anticipated I must admit.

I am also wondering as to whether the weird error messages and unexplained lockups have anything to do do with the level of battery charge.

Any sign of the green tinge on the new back?

But it can still produce the goods even at events- [a href=\"http://justinseye.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=8&page=1]Carriage parade, world record.[/url]

Justin.
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mcfoto

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Who loves their ZD ?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2008, 11:46:02 pm »

Hi
The latest version of the ZD back will have a 20 shot buffer. It would be nice if Mamiya could upgrade the 1st generation of the back & camera since Nikon is doing that with the D3 camera. Also when the new pro version of the PO software comes I hope it supports the ZD tethered. That alone would add value to the ZD back being supported by Phase One software.

Denis
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JDBFreeheel

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Who loves their ZD ?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2008, 05:20:28 pm »

Quote
Hi
The latest version of the ZD back will have a 20 shot buffer. It would be nice if Mamiya could upgrade the 1st generation of the back & camera since Nikon is doing that with the D3 camera. Also when the new pro version of the PO software comes I hope it supports the ZD tethered. That alone would add value to the ZD back being supported by Phase One software.

Denis
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How do you know if you have a "latest" version?  Is it by serial number?  

I just received my replacement zd back from Mamiya USA/MAC (HC30XX) and it appears that the speed/buffer performance is on par with my original zd back; 10 shots before it give me the "buffr full" message on the rear lcd status screen.  

Other than that, my replacement back seems to be producing solid images with no color casts that I can find.  Unfortunately, the actual lcd screen is slighted crooked (by maybe 1-2mm) and I'm trying to decide whether or not to send it back for another replacement.  The eternal question, do you risk getting a worse replacement in search of the "perfect" replacement?

Josh
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