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Author Topic: Ideal MF system for Location/Portable Advertising  (Read 117060 times)

TMARK

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« Reply #180 on: July 26, 2008, 01:01:53 am »

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I like cameras, most of them, but the 5d is something I really could never own. I picked one up, looked through it and put it down.

Done.

I think it's just because when I started you saved for cameras, borrowed money for cameras, went in dept for cameras before you would never think about shooting a professional job with an amateur camera, under any circumstance.

I know the people that like the 5D like it a lot but I wouldn't have it.

JR
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Have no doubt that it is a horrid camera in terms of handling, but it does make a nice picture.  I bought it along with a 1ds2 when I abandoned the Nikon ship, and it was a hard adjustment, especially coming from the Nikon bodies. Under lights the 5D looks as good as the ds2.  It has less DR than the ds2.  What's funny is that, to this day, I'll shoot with the 5D and feel as if everything I shot was an utter failure, until I look at the files in C1.

I wish that the Mamiya AF cams had half of the 5D's handling goodness.
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James R Russell

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« Reply #181 on: July 26, 2008, 01:09:48 am »

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Have no doubt that it is a horrid camera in terms of handling, but it does make a nice picture.  I bought it along with a 1ds2 when I abandoned the Nikon ship, and it was a hard adjustment, especially coming from the Nikon bodies. Under lights the 5D looks as good as the ds2.  It has less DR than the ds2.  What's funny is that, to this day, I'll shoot with the 5D and feel as if everything I shot was an utter failure, until I look at the files in C1.

I wish that the Mamiya AF cams had half of the 5D's handling goodness.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210752\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I know the latest version of the Mamiya is better than the first two, but there really was no where to go but up.

JR
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 01:25:25 am by James R Russell »
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TMARK

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« Reply #182 on: July 26, 2008, 01:34:11 am »

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I know the latest version of the Mamiya is better than the first two, but there really was no where to go but up.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210755\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What's funny is that I have two of the original Mamiya AFd cams. Had one since they came out.  The AFd2 is tighter and has better AF, but is still the same beast underneath. I never saw the need to get one, especially since their price used is a shocking $1800 bucks.  More than your Contax, which is a fine camera, one you want to shoot.  What is really bothersome is that the AFd with film was much better than with digital, much faster.  I tried the AFd3/Phase cam and liked it.  Much better feel in the hands, much better quality switch gear.
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pss

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« Reply #183 on: July 26, 2008, 01:43:27 am »

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With a Blad and fist full of Portra you had to know what you were doing. You had to use a meter. It took some time to get film back from the lab or you had to get your hands dirty developing and printing yourself.  Skills.  Then when you got the film back all that effort could be wasted if the film came back blank, or under exposed, or over exposed etc.  Again, skills that take time, dedication and practice to master.  You couldn't  start blasting away, looking at the screen to see if you have an image.  That's why the sewer opened up.  Its easy to take an image.
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absolutely correct! it is hard NOT to take a technically good photo with it.....
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TMARK

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« Reply #184 on: July 26, 2008, 02:06:35 am »

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Given than I will buy a 1ds3 this week and if I like it I'll buy another for backup.

I don't care about the sewer rot, every industry has it in some form, so I can't blame a camera for that.   I just don't like the 5d.

JR
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JR,

Let us know what you think of the ds3.  It doesn't "wow" like the orginal flavor 1ds, except for the viewfinder.
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James R Russell

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« Reply #185 on: July 26, 2008, 02:09:37 am »

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absolutely correct! it is hard NOT to take a technically good photo with it.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210762\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Ah, hah.  Now we hit on the secret to success.

We've been looking at this backwards.

Instead of a better lcd, higher iso, faster shooting, maybe we should ask for more shutter lag, even crappier lcds, (even it requires a polaroid and a meter) and very minimal iso so we need at least 10,000 watts to get an image.

Let's put all the magic back behind the curtain instead of out front like we do now.

Or maybe just a digital polaroid, with only 3mpx but a 5" screen.  One that is good enough to view but not good enough to reproduce and then we go back behind the curtain and do the magic.

(just kidding . . . well  . . . maybe not)

JR
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TMARK

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« Reply #186 on: July 26, 2008, 02:29:31 am »

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Ah, hah.  Now we hit on the secret to success.

We've been looking at this backwards.

Instead of a better lcd, higher iso, faster shooting, maybe we should ask for more shutter lag, even crappier lcds, (even it requires a polaroid and a meter) and very minimal iso so we need at least 10,000 watts to get an image.

Let's put all the magic back behind the curtain instead of out front like we do now.

Or maybe just a digital polaroid, with only 3mpx but a 5" screen.  One that is good enough to view but not good enough to reproduce and then we go back behind the curtain and do the magic.

(just kidding . . . well  . . . maybe not)

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210766\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So it sounds like you want a Sinar 54m!  I loved that back, but it was the MOST difficult thing to coax an image out of but when it finally worked it was really, really beautiful.

I wondered why rates were higher for video/motion and I realize its because the curtain is still down.  Film production is hard, even for something really simple.  So much collaboration and planning is required, its just fantastic.
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rethmeier

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« Reply #187 on: July 26, 2008, 04:09:03 am »

I think the new flagship for DSLR will be the Nikon D3x or whatever it will be called.
I use a 5D and a Hy6/75LV.
I'm a bit over Canon with their not so great wides.
That new Nikon 14-24 shit's on everything else.
Not interested in the 1DS3 or the upcoming 5D2.
Nikon has listened and is now making gear that the pros want.
Cheers,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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rainer_v

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« Reply #188 on: July 26, 2008, 05:26:37 am »

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I think the new flagship for DSLR will be the Nikon D3x or whatever it will be called.
I use a 5D and a Hy6/75LV.
I'm a bit over Canon with their not so great wides.
That new Nikon 14-24 shit's on everything else.
Not interested in the 1DS3 or the upcoming 5D2.
Nikon has listened and is now making gear that the pros want.
Cheers,
Willem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i have some doubts.
the new 24 nikon shift looks so cheap ( in reality - the plastic still looks nice in brochures ... ) and its handling feels so impractical, i couldnt believe it when i saw it first time.
only marketing driven, not any photographic knowledge or intention  behind.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 05:28:25 am by rainer_v »
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rainer viertlböck
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Dustbak

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« Reply #189 on: July 26, 2008, 05:38:10 am »

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i have some doubts.
the new 24 nikon shift looks so cheap ( in reality - the plastic still looks nice in brochures ... ) and its handling feels so impractical, i couldnt believe it when i saw it first time.
only marketing driven, not any photographic knowledge or intention  behind.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210782\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And it has an electronic stop down button. Meaning you cannot use it on something like a Digiflex or other device that accepts a F mount like you can the older 85PC

Maybe its optical quality is better than the old 28mm shift making it interesting together with a D3/D700(if it fits).
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rethmeier

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« Reply #190 on: July 26, 2008, 08:05:54 am »

Rainer,
Obviously you're not a Nikon fan.
Maybe the  Nikkor 24TS is at least worth a test?
It has to be better than the 10 year old design(or more) of the Canon TSE 24.
The new 14-24 Nikkor has certainly earned it's merits.
Regards,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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gwhitf

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« Reply #191 on: July 26, 2008, 08:49:01 am »

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With a Blad and fist full of Portra you had to know what you were doing. You had to use a meter. It took some time to get film back from the lab or you had to get your hands dirty developing and printing yourself.  Skills.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210746\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ironically, out of some of my frustration of tethering and the whole Digital Road Wreck, I (re)bought a couple of my beloved Hassie 203FE's recently, and I've started shooting color neg again. With the 203 and the meter built in, you just set it to aperture priority and shoot away, just like a point and shoot. It's a true joy. And I've got my old lenses back; those sweet Zeiss lenses.

What's even more interesting -- my local C41 pro lab will do web-quality scans, on their Noritsu scanner, of every frame of the uncut film, for the same price as making a color contact sheet. So that means, in effect, you could shoot an actual job on film, and by the next day, have your CD back with web scans on it, import to iView, make a web gallery, and have them uploaded immediately. Every frame. Not that different of a workflow, even compared to digital.

I'm going backwards, and I'm loving every minute of it. The funny part is when the make up artist will look at the back of the 203FE, and all she sees is a dark slider holder... Sweet revenge.
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ericisaac

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« Reply #192 on: July 26, 2008, 11:08:10 am »

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Maybe all of this is true.  I don't know, I really shouldn't care.

I do know that when I see that video of Annie photographing the Queen with a Canon it kind of throws me. 

I mean, you'd expect the world's most famous photogrpaher would photograph the world's most famous person with a camera that wasn't owned by the service manager at a Chevy dealership.

You'd expect an 8x10, or an RZ with a huge bellows, or maybe even something that said Rolliflex, Leica or Hasselblad.

But a 1ds2 with a zoom? . . . kind of strange looking and not that it should matter because the photos were fine and I'm sure Vanity Fare and their retouching wizards got it all right.

I kind of wonder what would Avedon shoot his western series in the digital world.  A Mamiya 645 and a P45?

I don't think the behind the scenes photos would look quite right with that setup.

Still, it's strange we're using the same equipment as auto repair guys.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210626\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

JR,

What do you have against mechanics and their photographic abilities?

On a technical level, I think her quality has gone down since using digital. I can spot a AL digital shot on the newstands from pretty far away. Perhaps its the look she's going for but to me it looks like crap.

But who are we to judge on which camera someone uses?  If one can make beautiful photos with a canon, then great. To me, all that stands between me and my subject is a somewhat arbitrary piece of glass. When I am shooting, I think about composition, exposure, and light; not that my canon lenses are inferior to medium format.
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adammork

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« Reply #193 on: July 26, 2008, 11:35:30 am »

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i have some doubts.
the new 24 nikon shift looks so cheap ( in reality - the plastic still looks nice in brochures ... ) and its handling feels so impractical, i couldnt believe it when i saw it first time.
only marketing driven, not any photographic knowledge or intention  behind.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210782\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I also find that the Nikon 24 shift feels a bit cheap, I was also a bit disappointed when I first got it in my hand.

But, I tested 2 samples against a Canon 24 ts that where handpicked the same way by an other photographer as you have done with your sigma wide.

Both the Nikon samples performed better than the canon, specially towards the edge, they where sharper and had less CA.

The 14-24 is quite good as well

Nikon have Imo the edge on the wide side and the sample variation on the lenses are not as choking as the Canon's can be.

/adam
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rethmeier

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« Reply #194 on: July 26, 2008, 06:47:24 pm »

Thanks Adam and Rainer.
As for the golden rule,I have to test those lenses myself.
Cheers,
Willem.
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James R Russell

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« Reply #195 on: July 26, 2008, 07:31:20 pm »

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JR,

What do you have against mechanics and their photographic abilities?


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210825\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I like them better than  I like hair stylists that become photographers, or as a friend calls them, Hairtographers.

JR
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 08:02:53 pm by James R Russell »
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James R Russell

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« Reply #196 on: July 26, 2008, 08:01:57 pm »

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What's even more interesting -- my local C41 pro lab will do web-quality scans, on their Noritsu scanner, of every frame of the uncut film, for the same price as making a color contact sheet. So that means, in effect, you could shoot an actual job on film, and by the next day, have your CD back with web scans on it, import to iView, make a web gallery, and have them uploaded immediately. Every frame. Not that different of a workflow, even compared to digital.

I'm going backwards, and I'm loving every minute of it. The funny part is when the make up artist will look at the back of the 203FE, and all she sees is a dark slider holder... Sweet revenge.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210805\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wonder how many labs would still be in business if they offerred this service, or better yet would archive all of the film, you would just call it in and they would ftp the high rez scans.

It's funny, (Ironic funny, not ha ha funny) I didn't start digital to get rid of film, I started with digital to get rid of polaroid and the unstability and the wait time and the assitants smearing them, etc.

Now it's even more than funny that it took until now with the Nikon to get a preview that was better than polaroid.

JR
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 01:29:57 am by James R Russell »
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klane

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« Reply #197 on: July 26, 2008, 08:03:29 pm »

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I like them better than  I like hair stylists that become photographers, or as a friend calls them, Hairtographers, not to be confused with Actographers.

JR
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  Im glad somebody else notices these things, they drive me nuts.


James you always talk about the great color of the 1ds, I feel the same way about the old canon d60.... people I know always say oh is that like an old camera or something? I jsut say yeah....its um old  
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James R Russell

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« Reply #198 on: July 26, 2008, 08:09:56 pm »

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  Im glad somebody else notices these things, they drive me nuts.
James you always talk about the great color of the 1ds, I feel the same way about the old canon d60.... people I know always say oh is that like an old camera or something? I jsut say yeah....its um old 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210901\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I was in Osaka shooting 4 athletes for an ad series.  During one event, there was this young Japanese photogrpaher, with this tiny laptop uploading some of the most beautiful sports images I've ever seen . . . actually forget the sports part, they were just beautiful regardless of the genre.

At his feet were two Nikon D1's, or whatever the "old" ones were called.  They looked like they had been dragged behind a truck.


JR
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 01:28:55 am by James R Russell »
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eronald

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« Reply #199 on: July 27, 2008, 07:48:09 am »

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I think the new flagship for DSLR will be the Nikon D3x or whatever it will be called.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think the consensus in the industry is that the big shakeup will come when the Sony fullframe hits the streets. Sony has been quietly commissioning expensive Zeiss full frame lenses and will hit the street with a full system with custom lenses. Canon and Nikon now both have lens issues as moving bodies has soaked up all their energy.

For myself, I suspect that Sony may do a 1-2 and follow up with video-enabled products employing the same lens range.

One shouldn't underestimate the effect of a few good lenses on buying behavior. I use a single lens 85% of the time, and I think that a really good 50, the 85/1.4 or a remake of one of the famed  Zeiss zooms  may be enough for many to justify buying into the Sony range.

Edmund
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 07:51:44 am by eronald »
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