Z3100 APS: Editing Profiles

[walter.sk]

I am confused, to say the least, about how to use the profile-editing capability of the APS.  There are several steps that I need help with.

1)  How do I determine whether my profile problems, if any, are correctable by editing?

2)  How do I know which "direction" to choose?

3) Wouldn't it be more accurate if HP provided two versions of the same image, rather than one image with a split in it for monitoring the changes?

I use the APS colorimeter for my monitor profiles, which are excellent.  Most of my prints use Perceptual Intent with BPC on.  A few use Relative Colorimetric with BPC on.
When I softproof, I use Simulate Paper Color, and usually Perceptual, except for when the print will be made with Relative Colorimetric intent.

What are the steps you use in editing the profile with APS?

[rdonson]

I am confused, to say the least, about how to use the profile-editing capability of the APS.  There are several steps that I need help with.

1)  How do I determine whether my profile problems, if any, are correctable by editing?

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Let's start with this one.  What are the profile problems you're experiencing?  Do the prints look good but the screen match isn't as good as it should be?

[neil snape]

If the print is not looking the way you want you can tweak it in that direction. IF the print looks good but your screen view looks wrong compared to the print you adjust the return rgb screen portion of the same profile.

Always rename the edited profile with something reasonable. I have often suggested that the editing could be used for job specific or rather client specific tasks. IF a client has a preference in contrast , gray balance, saturation etc you can make edits based on the ref profile and save that out as a client profile. All new jobs then can be printed with this edited profile.

I don't usually edit profiles for overall printing. It actually breaks the integrity of the table grid points hence for what you correct you loose elsewhere.
If you don't have a choice then you can but little moves are better....

[walter.sk]

Thanks for the reply, Neil and Ron.

I'm not sure at all if I need to edit either the way my softproof image comes out or how the print comes out. Let me present two examples.

1) Using my APS-generated profile for HP Premium ID Satin, and CS3's View>Proof Colors and View> Gamut Warning on:  I print, for example, fromQimage, with the HPPremIDSat profile, BPC selected.  In CS3, in the Proof Setup diaglogue I choose Perceptual, and Simulate Paper Color.  Qimage lets me softproof again before printing, and uses my image with the adjustment layers, as below.

When Proof Colors and Gamut Warning are selected, my image's color balance shows a slight blue color cast and much less contrast.  I duplicate this image, which again looks like my original optimized image.  I add a curves adjustment layer until the contrast looks right on the softproofed image, and then use Color Balance to neutralize the color cast, most visible in the pure whites and high tones.  When I print, the printer output matches my softproofed image with the two adjustment layers well enough to satisfy me.

Does this mean I don't need to edit anything?  Or does it mean that I should edit "In the Softproof Direction"  to make my Proof Colors image look like the print without always having to add the adjustment layers?

2)  The second example:  My APS-generated profile HP Hahnemuhle Textured Fine Art Paper appears to have a smaller gamut and muddier low tones than HP's generic profile for that paper.  Also, dark reds are much worse in the APS-generated profile than on HP's generic profile.  Would editing the APS profile from the Printer direction give me the possibility of correcting the problems?  In fact, would benerating a new APS profile give any chance of making a better profile?

Sorry for getting so wordy.  Maybe I need to softproof my posts

[neil snape]

Thanks for the reply, Neil and Ron.

I'm not sure at all if I need to edit either the way my softproof image comes out or how the print comes out. Let me present two examples.

1) Using my APS-generated profile for HP Premium ID Satin, and CS3's View>Proof Colors and View> Gamut Warning on:  I print, for example, fromQimage, with the HPPremIDSat profile, BPC selected.  In CS3, in the Proof Setup diaglogue I choose Perceptual, and Simulate Paper Color.

When Proof Colors and Gamut Warning are selected, my image's color balance shows a slight blue color cast and much less contrast.  I duplicate this image, which again looks like my original optimized image.  I add a curves adjustment layer until the contrast looks right on the softproofed image, and then use Color Balance to neutralize the color cast, most visible in the pure whites and high tones.  When I print, the printer output matches my softproofed image with the two adjustment layers well enough to satisfy me.

Does this mean I don't need to edit anything?  Or does it mean that I should edit "In the Softproof Direction to make my Proof Colors image look like the print without always having to add the adjustment layers?

2)  The second example:  My APS-generated profile HP Hahnemuhle Textured Fine Art Paper appears to have a smaller gamut and muddier low tones than HP's generic profile for that paper.  Also, dark reds are much worse in the APS-generated profile than on HP's generic profile.  Would editing the APS profile from the Printer direction give me the possibility of correcting the problems?  In fact, would benerating a new APS profile give any chance of making a better profile?

Sorry for getting so wordy.  Maybe I need to softproof my posts
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I don't use simulate paper white in soft proofing. For me it always seems lower contrast than my eyes see on the prints in a viewing booth.  The paper white on most photo paper have a white point that is bluer than the eye sees, as the eye adapts very quickly to the OBA reflecting what appears to be white light.

Now what you see with APS on Hahenemuhle is what I have been saying.  On matte, and only matte I prefer the built in profiler.
Can you edit this for a better look? Not much. The matte K ink has a very quick rise in solid ink density in the shadows. You cannot override the color maps (well you can in GutenPrint Unix RIP) so in theory you can mess with the profile but it won't output any more ink than it can through the color maps.