Digital view camera options

[Harold Clark]

My Sinar Norma served me well in the past, with lenses from 47mm into the telephoto range. I used this for architecture, industrial machines and products etc. I have done considerable research here and elsewhere with regards to the best equivalent setup in the digital realm.

My findings would seem to indicate a couple of things: Only a camera with geared movements will be precise enough for use with a digital back, and that even with such a camera, a 24mm lens may still be very difficult if not impossible to use. I am familiar with the Cambo DS, but would feel more comfortable with a sliding back which allows ground glass viewing. Also, with the Cambo, a separate camera would still be necessary for longer lenses/additional movements.

Has anybody found a view camera solution that will work from 24mm up, and allows ground glass viewing? It seems the Silvestri might work, but it would be great to hear from some actual users of this or similar cameras. (Things used to be much simpler!)

[micek]

I shoot architecture and have moved from an Ebony SW45 to an Alpa XY + digital back.
I use Schneider's 24mm, 35mm and 47mm lenses without any difficulty. With the Alpa stitching is also a viable alternative.
There are no sliding backs for Alpas, but there is a ground glass you can use. I have got it, but do not use it. I have found it is much easier to take a tentative shot making use of the external viewfinder, check it on the back's screen (I don't know about other backs, but Aptus backs have got a rather helpful grid function) and if necessary retake the shot once or twice.
You can mount (much) longer lenses on Alpas, but with them I suppose the GG would prove more useful.

[Jack Flesher]

The Horseman SW-D 2 has a nice feature in that the back standard moves leaving the lens stationary once set on the tripod for more precise stitches. It can use the 24 (very little movement with a full frame MF back) through 135 lenses.  No tilts though.  Just ordered mine with the 35 along with a P45+ -- all should be here tomorrow  

http://www.horsemanusa.com/digital/SWD2_ScSp.html

[Steve_Townsend]

The Horseman SW-D 2 has a nice feature in that the back standard moves leaving the lens stationary once set on the tripod for more precise stitches. It can use the 24 (very little movement with a full frame MF back) through 135 lenses.  No tilts though.  Just ordered mine with the 35 along with a P45+ -- all should be here tomorrow  

I am sorry to say the Horseman was the worse camera I have ever had. No gearing and the worse part just try and change a lens more than a couple of times. I quickly changed to the Cambo, the new one should be very good, or the Alpa is excellent.

[bryanyc]

Harold,

It would seem that the two front runners at this point (for pure digital) are just about to make their appearance on the market:
 
the Cambo RS (search for the recent thread) and the Alpa Max.

I think you are correct that with long lenses and shifting of any significant amount another camera (a 6x9 Arca perhaps)  is going to be required.

The alpa will have a tilt adaptor soon and they have the new "short barrel" version of longer lenses to give more shifting ability I believe, but look and see if you can find specs on this on their site or email them on this question.

Ultimately it is a hard decision because it is hard to put your hands on these cameras, even after they have been introduced.  But I definitely think that for the 100% digital (not hybrid film/digital) solution these are the ones to get.

As to the sliding back adaptors, I really don't know.  But when the image size on the ground glass gets to 4.5 x6 cm it is, IMHO, pretty useless.  For focussing you can get a laser distance finder like a hilty.

I have an alpa swa with film backs and lenses, just waiting for the appropriate time to go digital with (and the spare cash   )

Let us know what your research points to, including the backs.

[Jack Flesher]

I am sorry to say the Horseman was the worse camera I have ever had. No gearing and the worse part just try and change a lens more than a couple of times. I quickly changed to the Cambo, the new one should be very good, or the Alpa is excellent.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199765\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Maybe you had a bad copy?  I used a demo and had no problems at all.  In fact, I found the sliding rear shift an advantage over the geared Cambo because it allowed me to make the shift-stitch captures far more rapidly. (I also appreciated it being more compact  )

Clearly, user needs and experiences vary, so best to try out the various options before you buy...

Cheers,

[jing q]

My Sinar Norma served me well in the past, with lenses from 47mm into the telephoto range. I used this for architecture, industrial machines and products etc. I have done considerable research here and elsewhere with regards to the best equivalent setup in the digital realm.

My findings would seem to indicate a couple of things: Only a camera with geared movements will be precise enough for use with a digital back, and that even with such a camera, a 24mm lens may still be very difficult if not impossible to use. I am familiar with the Cambo DS, but would feel more comfortable with a sliding back which allows ground glass viewing. Also, with the Cambo, a separate camera would still be necessary for longer lenses/additional movements.

Has anybody found a view camera solution that will work from 24mm up, and allows ground glass viewing? It seems the Silvestri might work, but it would be great to hear from some actual users of this or similar cameras. (Things used to be much simpler!)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199750\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the silvestri is a sweet camera.you have the option of the bicam with a special lensboard for the 24mm and helicoid focusing or flexicam (does the flexicam allow use of the 24mm?)
I've never used it with a 24mm though, I usually use the 35mm HR rodenstock on the bicam.
There's rise and fall of 15mm on the bicam, with tilt shift and swings for the flexicam and the bicam with bellows attached.
I find it a beautiful piece of engineering too as a camera.very compact.

[Harold Clark]

the silvestri is a sweet camera.you have the option of the bicam with a special lensboard for the 24mm and helicoid focusing or flexicam (does the flexicam allow use of the 24mm?)
I've never used it with a 24mm though, I usually use the 35mm HR rodenstock on the bicam.
There's rise and fall of 15mm on the bicam, with tilt shift and swings for the flexicam and the bicam with bellows attached.
I find it a beautiful piece of engineering too as a camera.very compact.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199783\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks everybody for your speedy and most helpful replies. The Silvestri caught my eye, I downloaded the info from their website. According to them the 24mm will work with the flexicam, but not in conjunction with the sliding adapter. No doubt the clearances are too tight. I do residential interiors sometimes with 17mm on the Canon full frame, so 24mm would be very useful in tight spaces. I have played with the Cambo in the store and liked the feel of it, but you would think they could produce a more accurate, less distorted viewfinder. Cheap point and shoot cameras are better in this regard.

Arca Swiss advertises that their new architectural camera will accept lenses up to 400mm with the optional bellows, but I don't know how they achieve this and their isn't much info yet anyway.

One camera that can do everything is appealing if it in fact exists. Aside from architecture, realistically mostly everything else could probably be handled with my mamiya and some perspective corrections in post production. Being from the old school though, it is hard not to want to correct everything in the camera first.

[Harold Clark]

I shoot architecture and have moved from an Ebony SW45 to an Alpa XY + digital back.
I use Schneider's 24mm, 35mm and 47mm lenses without any difficulty. With the Alpa stitching is also a viable alternative.
There are no sliding backs for Alpas, but there is a ground glass you can use. I have got it, but do not use it. I have found it is much easier to take a tentative shot making use of the external viewfinder, check it on the back's screen (I don't know about other backs, but Aptus backs have got a rather helpful grid function) and if necessary retake the shot once or twice.
You can mount (much) longer lenses on Alpas, but with them I suppose the GG would prove more useful.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How does the Aptus back perform when using maximum shift? Do you get any aberrations, colour shifts etc. that require a lot of post prod work?

[clawery]

Besides the Cambo SWD, Horseman WDS and Alpas you can also look at the Arca-Swiss F-metric and M-Monolith.  Cambo also offers the Utima 23 that can be fitted with a Phase One FlexAdapter.
Buyer beware... Arca-Swiss may be a little hard to get in hand.  

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
[email protected]
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
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[pprdigital]

My Sinar Norma served me well in the past, with lenses from 47mm into the telephoto range. I used this for architecture, industrial machines and products etc. I have done considerable research here and elsewhere with regards to the best equivalent setup in the digital realm.

My findings would seem to indicate a couple of things: Only a camera with geared movements will be precise enough for use with a digital back, and that even with such a camera, a 24mm lens may still be very difficult if not impossible to use. I am familiar with the Cambo DS, but would feel more comfortable with a sliding back which allows ground glass viewing. Also, with the Cambo, a separate camera would still be necessary for longer lenses/additional movements.

Has anybody found a view camera solution that will work from 24mm up, and allows ground glass viewing? It seems the Silvestri might work, but it would be great to hear from some actual users of this or similar cameras. (Things used to be much simpler!)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199750\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Harold:

You might also consider the Plaubel PL69D. It provides a very nice "just right" type of solution. Not the smallest or lightest small format view camera, but not the heaviest. It was designed from the beginning to handle lenses 24mm and longer. It is completely geared, completely yaw free and reasonably priced.

We sell most of the major brand view cameras and I consider the Plaubel a good value. Plaubel is now distributed in the USA by Direct Source Marketing, who also distributes Rollei and Horseman in the USA. Information is hard to come by on the camera, but now that it has re-gained its distribution footing, hopefully it will become a better known entity in the segment. If you'd like to know more about it, feel free to contact me.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

[bryanyc]

Arca-Swiss may be a little hard to get in hand. 

Maybe some day they will put together a web site........

I've seen their new camera with the acrylic grips......accepts lenses into a helicoid mount.  I wasn't that impressed although the zooming viewfinder was nice.  Also was supposed to take an electronic rangefinder - but those have been a failure whenever they were attempted like in the linhof.

In general they are a bit hermetic with their distribution which would make them not a good choice going forward.  

In general I think that Cambo, Alpa and perhaps Silvestri are the solutions to consider - although I have heard a hint that Sinar may introduce something similar at the new Photokina.

[micek]

How does the Aptus back perform when using maximum shift? Do you get any aberrations, colour shifts etc. that require a lot of post prod work?

There is some colour shift, but with software it is a non-issue. It really is much more worrying on paper than in practice.

[jonstewart]

I'm having a very successful play with the Bicam at the moment. Either a straight shift cam, or stick the bellows on and have more movements!

(Of course, you have to decide how you're going to mount the lenses!)

[rhsu]

I'm having a very successful play with the Bicam at the moment. Either a straight shift cam, or stick the bellows on and have more movements!

(Of course, you have to decide how you're going to mount the lenses!)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199932\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Q:  Are you able to rotate the digital back to a portrait orientation rather than just landscape orientation with the Bicam or Flexicam with sliding back on both?  I rec'd conflicting stories that a "v" mount on any back (ie Phase 22/39mp you can rotate) but NOT with the "H" mount (Hasselblad back - which I have)?

I've too been looking at an all rounder (as I cannot keep carrying my Cambo 23D for location/field photography).

Love to here back from you.

Richard

[tom_l]

the P25 V-Mount on my Flexicam can, of course, rotate.
No idea for the others mounts


tom

[jonstewart]

Q:  Are you able to rotate the digital back to a portrait orientation rather than just landscape orientation with the Bicam or Flexicam with sliding back on both?  I rec'd conflicting stories that a "v" mount on any back (ie Phase 22/39mp you can rotate) but NOT with the "H" mount (Hasselblad back - which I have)?

I've too been looking at an all rounder (as I cannot keep carrying my Cambo 23D for location/field photography).

Love to here back from you.

Richard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199991\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I originally got a flexicam, but gave up on it as it wouldn't work the way I wanted it to, and wasn't flexible. You cannot rotate the digital back in AFD mount with the flexicam. It also has huge problems stitching (using rise and fall, to keep the lens stationary) with wider lenses. Stitched shooting with the 35XL doesn't work according to my tests.

The Bicam; I have the new universal stitching back; can be mounted in either orientation. Generally mount horizontally, and then you've got rise and fall as well to cover 95% of the image circle. The Universal stitching back has a drop in plate, which itself can be dropped in, in either orientation. In summary, the stitching back can be mounted horiz or vert, and then the digital back can be mounted in either orientation, completely independent of the stitching back.

Having great fun shooting interiors for a hot tub distributor, atm; shooting 6 shots; 3 across at rise 15, and 3 across at fall 15.

Hope this helps

[Morgan_Moore]

Has anybody found a view camera solution that will work from 24mm up, [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199750\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think there is a kind of contradiction in requirements

wide lenses need tiny movement in the vertical plane only

having absolutley no tilt is critical

and the best way to get no tilt is to have a camera that doesnt tilt

Like the Cambo wide, Horsement SWD or any ALPA

Conversly longer lenses maybe used with smaller objects like in the studio can require big movements in all directions

There is probably no ONE SOLUTION

I would investigate a camera with rise fall for use with wide and a bellows camera for longer lenses

you may find that the sinar norma is in fact suited for use with digital with a longer lens - my sinar P2 certainly is

I use it with a phase sliding back adapter which offers both GG viewing and the option to stitch two images together for fantastic quality

If find that the GG is only suitable however for gaining basic composition and fine adjustments must be made by using live view, examining the camera screen or preferably shooting tethered to a computer which is the only way I would do it nowadays

*Edit on reareading your post you seem to be looking for 24mm and a sliding back - this is not likely to exist as there is not really enough room between the lens rear element and the recording chip for such a lot of engineering

S

[jonstewart]

I agree with Sam, and that's where the Bicam scores for me, since the bellows is removable, then the wide lenses in helical mount can be used on it as a shift camera, rather than a view camera.

While it may not be an Alpa (or other Swiss, or indeed Dutch brand!), it appears to deliver much of what is possible for both a shift camera and (compact) view camera.

Hope this helps

[Jann Lipka]

I'm surprised no one mentions Linhof M679.
Sliding back, quite good support for wide angles , and nice engineering .
It is a little bulky ,
but you could probably use it mostly without any tripod head ..

Probably good compromise ...
I'm trying to decide if this is a good buy ...