Topic: Leaf AFi (Read 5982 times)

henrikfoto · « **on:** May 06, 2008, 06:30:03 pm »

I have tried the Leaf AFi with the 3 new lenses today (50mm, 80mm and 180mm).
My first impression was great. The camera feels very good to hold and use (even if the mirror slams much harder than I expected. The AF was fast for a medium format. Everything was very positive until I came home and opened the pictures in Leafs software.

In most of the pictures the AF missed, and the focus was placed anywhere else than I tried to place it. I have used many other AF-cameras (medium format and 35mm) but have never seen a camera miss this much. What can it be?

I also suspect the mirror to cause vibrations that can be seen in the pictures. I used the camera handheld, but stayed at shutterspeeds faster than 1/500.

I must admit that this camera was a disappointment to me so far. The lenses was ok, but I think the latest Haselblad V lenses are better so are the Sinar M-lenses.

Anybody else who has tested the Leaf AFi?

Henrik

BJNY · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2008, 06:45:42 pm »

Here's a thread started earlier today:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=25131

Graham Mitchell · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2008, 07:29:14 pm »

Perhaps it was operator error, or there was some fault? Too many other people have used this camera and had no focus problems.

thsinar · « **Reply #3 on:** May 07, 2008, 01:14:09 am »

Henrik,

I can assure you that this camera doesn't miss, neither the Leaf AFi nor the Sinar Hy6 (same AF): I have again used it yesterday, during demonstration, as well as on many other occasions, and the AF is on the spot.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote

In most of the pictures the AF missed, and the focus was placed anywhere else than I tried to place it. I have used many other AF-cameras (medium format and 35mm) but have never seen a camera miss this much. What can it be?

Anybody else who has tested the Leaf AFi?

Henrik
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henrikfoto · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2008, 02:58:01 am »

Quote

Henrik,

I can assure you that this camera doesn't miss, neither the Leaf AFi nor the Sinar Hy6 (same AF): I have again used it yesterday, during demonstration, as well as on many other occasions, and the AF is on the spot.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194033\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for a very helpful and arrogant answer, Thierry!

Henrik

thsinar · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2008, 03:02:27 am »

Henrik,

I don't get it?

I am speaking about my experience with this camera, period.

I don't think having a reputation of being arrogant or ever having been.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote

Thanks for a very arrogant answer, thierry!

Henrik
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henrikfoto · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2008, 03:04:14 am »

Quote

Henrik,

I don't get it?

I am speaking about my experience with this camera, period.

I don't think having a reputation of being arrogant or ever having been.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194056\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So it`s not arrogant when a representative of a company denies that there can be a problem with a camera???

thsinar · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2008, 03:09:49 am »

Henrik,

I simply said, that I personally did not have such a problem, and that I have many other photographers and contacts using it daily without this problem: what is arrogant here?

I deny nothing, but my suggestion is to check what could have got wrong, since it is not the normal behavior of this camera.

Henrik: I don't like the tone of your post. You are happy enough to contact me offline whenever you need my help, and you have always got my help (and you know yourself how many times), within a few minutes. Calling me an arrogant online is at the very least surprising. I would define myself as arrogant, if I would leave you with your problem and not answering your issues and not trying to help you out of your problem.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote

So it`s not arrogant when a representative of a company denies that there can be a problem with a camera???
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henrikfoto · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2008, 03:12:39 am »

Quote

Henrik,

I simply said, that I personally did not have such a problem, and that I have many other photographers and contacts using it daily without this problem: what is arrogant here?

I deny nothing, but my suggestion is to check what could have got wrong, since it is not the normal behavior of this camera.

Henrik: I don't like the tone of your post. You are happy enough to contact me offline whenever you need my help, and you have always got my help (and you know yourself how many times), within a few minutes. Calling me an arrogant online is at the very least surprising. I would define myself as arrogant, if I would leave you with your problem and not answering your issues and not trying to help you out of your problem.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194062\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thierry!

The reason why I asked this online was that I used the Leaf-system, and not Sinar.

Henrik

thsinar · « **Reply #9 on:** May 07, 2008, 03:23:44 am »

It is the same camera, with the same AF: it must behave the same concerning autofocus. If not, then I presume (I am sure, without wishing to be arrogant) that something was not how it should be.

And the reason why I was reacting to your post is because from all those I have shown, from those who have used and tested this camera, especially the autofocus, from my own experience with this camera since June last year, the feedback is that the AF is good and the fastest they could experience so far.

It is one opinion against another: if writing my opinion (backed by my own experience and backed by the photographers who have feed-backed to me) is called arrogant, then I have problems to understand this.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Quote

Thierry!

The reason why I asked this online was that I used the Leaf-system, and not Sinar.

Henrik
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henrikfoto · « **Reply #10 on:** May 07, 2008, 03:26:58 am »

Quote

It is the same camera, with the same AF: it must behave the same concerning autofocus. If not, then I presume (I am sure, without wishing to be arrogant) that something was not how it should be.

And the reason why I was reacting to your post is because from all those I have shown, from those who have used and tested this camera, especially the autofocus, from my own experience with this camera since June last year, the feedback is that the AF is good and the fastest they could experience so far.

It is one opinion against another: if writing my opinion (backed by my own experience and backed by the photographers who have feed-backed to me) is called arrogant, then I have problems to understand this.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194064\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Let`s people deside for themselves..

Henrik

thsinar · « **Reply #11 on:** May 07, 2008, 03:30:55 am »

that's exactly my point: there are people who have decided for themselves already.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote

Let`s people deside for themselves..

Henrik
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Frank Doorhof · « **Reply #12 on:** May 07, 2008, 03:34:17 am »

Thierry is not being arrogant I think.
Be glad you get first line support, I don't see Nikon or Canon doing that.....

AF fault must be operator fault, maybe you had the focus on continues ?
Or just have to get used to the bigger sensor, or whatever problem there can be.

I know almost all the people I let shoot with my setup the first time have problem with the focus, but I get 100% sharp shots when I shoot.
It's a bit getting used to probarbly.

henrikfoto · « **Reply #13 on:** May 07, 2008, 03:37:43 am »

Quote

Thierry is not being arrogant I think.
Be glad you get first line support, I don't see Nikon or Canon doing that.....

AF fault must be operator fault, maybe you had the focus on continues ?
Or just have to get used to the bigger sensor, or whatever problem there can be.

I know almost all the people I let shoot with my setup the first time have problem with the focus, but I get 100% sharp shots when I shoot.
It's a bit getting used to probarbly.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194069\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you, Frank! I will ofcourse keep on trying. Do you have any tips that could be helpful of how to place the focus right?

Henrik

Frank Doorhof · « **Reply #14 on:** May 07, 2008, 04:05:23 am »

I would not know, I made the switch from the Canon to the Mamiya 645AFD/II without any problems, and have RZ67 ProII coming in today (which seems to be a problem to focus for some so I'm anxious to try out ).

But I heard from the dealer that some people brought back the 645AFD/II because they could not get one sharp photo, and when they demonstrated it to the customer it was sharp, customer did it, blurry.

Try shooting from a tripod for starters, maybe you are a bit loose in your pose.
I shoot some sports with a 100-400L handheld for hours and build some muscle
I'm very steady as it seems so maybe that's the trick.
I think however it has to be something more simple like a wrong setting.

Do you focus/compose ?
Or do you just press the shutter ?

Did you try the tripod ?
Is the camera on one shot focus ?

This all contributes to getting sharp photos, but the most important stays your pose and steadyness.
With MF you have way less room to play with, try to shoot a 2.8 wide open on a MF and you're screwed if you move an inch.

Hope this helps.

Frank Doorhof · « **Reply #15 on:** May 07, 2008, 04:06:19 am »

Sorry, did miss the part where you already shot with MF systems.

thsinar · « **Reply #16 on:** May 07, 2008, 05:18:39 am »

Henrik,

Below some of the reasons which could be the cause of your out-of-focus images:

- first of all I noticed that it could not be the mirror vibration as the cause, since you say: "... the focus was placed anywhere else ...", which means that there is something in focus.

Possible and likely causes:

- as Frank mentioned: make sure that you have your AF setting to "Single AF" = "S": if on "Continuous" = "C", this could lead to out of focus when moving/pointing on a different part of the subject.

- could it be that you had the AF set to "S", but that you did focus on a point of the subject, release the AF/Release button, then re-frame and thus re-(auto)focus?

- could it be that you had tried a "pre-production" unit with initial "index level" and initial "firmware"?: I am asking this, since a couple of weeks ago another member posted here on LL the same problem: he was mentioning that he was using a Leaf AFi pre-production unit and completely out of focus, while trying also a Sinar Hy6 (production unit) with very accurate AF in his images.

If this is all checked, the last possible cause could be a back/sensor not exactly in the focus plane: this can be easily checked by having the camera on a tripod, focusing manually on a point of the subject (a ruler is best suited to check), with FULL OPEN aperture, and then to check where the focus is in your image.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote

Do you have any tips that could be helpful of how to place the focus right?

Henrik
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Rick_Allen · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2008, 06:03:02 am »

I shot for about the first 20 minutes of the day yesterday and could not get the focus right before I realised that the back wasnt mounted properly, I just hadn't pushed the back all the way on and the flash was firing and the images looked right expect not shar. Freaked me out for the rest of the day but a af was right on all day.

henrikfoto · « **Reply #18 on:** May 07, 2008, 07:11:18 am »

Thanks, Thierry!

I did not mean offend you by my careless comment earlier. Sorry about that!

I will try the camera on a tripod today, and use higher ISO. I have read the manual about focus today, and had a few tips there. I hope for better luck today.

Do you have any MTF-curves for the new lenses?

Henrik

henrikfoto · « **Reply #19 on:** May 07, 2008, 12:10:56 pm »

I did more shooting with the camera today, and it went better..

I shot with a tripod at ISO100. F11. Yesterday I used it much more open at ISO 50.

Today the shots were much sharper and the focus better. I used much more time focusing.
Seems like this is more critical with this camera and the 33 megapixel back?

I also think I may be too critical with wider lenses like 50mm, and are hoping for for the same
degree of sharpness as with my macro-work. What can be expected from a lens like that?

Much more happy after the 2. day with the AFi.

Henrik

Author Topic: Leaf AFi (Read 5982 times)