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Author Topic: Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review  (Read 8354 times)

eronald

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« on: March 26, 2008, 07:24:09 pm »

I've put up my nutshell review of the Ds3.


http://techcomment.blogspot.com/
Edmund
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BernardLanguillier

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 08:29:53 pm »

Quote
I've put up my nutshell review of the Ds3.
http://techcomment.blogspot.com/
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, good overview.

Just one comment. Unless you aim at targetting only Canon shooters, you might want to mention that, besides the 5D replacement, at least Sony has made it clear that they will have a higher definition body with built-in IS availalbe by the Photokina that should be significantly cheaper than the 1ds3 also while providing even more definition. Nikon is likely to release one too.

The Kina should also see the next generation of 60MP MFDB coming up.

Anyway you look at it, now is probably not the best time to buy any of these high end pieces of equipment unless you really need them right away.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 08:44:27 pm »

Bernard,

 All you say is true. I was just reviewing the thing as it stands - the future is not mine to see
 Frankly, I like the sheer speed of the 1Ds3, but I'm too spoiled by the Phase files to go back to 35mm.
 On the other hand, I cannot imagine anyone really *needing* better than the 1Ds3 quality.

Edmund

Quote
Thanks, good overview.

Just one comment. Unless you aim at targetting only Canon shooters, you might want to mention that, besides the 5D replacement, at least Sony has made it clear that they will have a higher definition body with built-in IS availalbe by the Photokina that should be significantly cheaper than the 1ds3 also while providing even more definition. Nikon is likely to release one too.

The Kina should also see the next generation of 60MP MFDB coming up.

Anyway you look at it, now is probably not the best time to buy any of these high end pieces of equipment unless you really need them right away.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184580\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 08:47:21 pm by eronald »
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BernardLanguillier

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 08:52:56 pm »

Quote
Bernard,

On the other hand, I cannot imagine anyone really *needing* better than the 1Ds3 quality.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184582\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I guess that it depends on the application. For those doing fine art prints, more pixels are always welcome.

Most of my images nowadays are stitches made of 6 to 24 D3 images, with resulting resolutions in the 40 to 120 Mpixels (pretty good sharpeness per pixel), and that it overkill with my current Epson 4000, but will come very handy when I decide to invest in the next generation printing device.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 09:13:13 pm »

Hehe, I cannot imagine stitching a portrait

Let's be frank here, the back is still at least at least 2 generations ahead of the Canon on pixel count, at least one generation on pixel quality. Canon need to put a worthwhile sensor inside that nice body. My feeling is they didn't quite deliver. It's better than the 1DsII, but not as good as it ought to be. The original 1Ds set a standard which hasn't been met again. Some people say the same about the original 1D. The same is true for the AF in the two samples I've seen of this camera. On the other hand, the 1DsIII is almost affordable, and will certainly survive anything that's thrown at it. And it is available in every major camera shop in the world, and backed up by Canon CPS. Maybe Canon will improve when they get some competition from Sony and Nikon ?

Edmund


Quote
I guess that it depends on the application. For those doing fine art prints, more pixels are always welcome.

Most of my images nowadays are stitches made of 6 to 24 D3 images, with resulting resolutions in the 40 to 120 Mpixels (pretty good sharpeness per pixel), and that it overkill with my current Epson 4000, but will come very handy when I decide to invest in the next generation printing device.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184585\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 09:17:54 pm by eronald »
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BernardLanguillier

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 09:16:29 pm »

Quote
Hehe, I cannot imagine stitching a portrait
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184588\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No doubt...

Quote
Let's be frank here, the back is still at least at least 2 generations ahead of the Canon on pixel count, at least generation on pixel quality. Canon need to put a worthwhile sensor inside that nice body. My feeling is they didn't quite deliver. The same is true for the AF at least in the two samples I've had of this camera. On the other hand, the 1DsIII is almost affordable, and will certainly survive anything that's thrown at it. And it is available in every major camera shop in the world, and backed up by Canon CPS.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184588\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sure, the MFBD have still a significant lead here.

Cheers,
Bernard

Mark D Segal

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2008, 10:04:56 pm »

Quote
Hehe, I cannot imagine stitching a portrait

And it is available in every major camera shop in the world, and backed up by Canon CPS. Maybe Canon will improve when they get some competition from Sony and Nikon ?

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184588\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You are only backed up by Canon CPS if you are a CPS member, and to become a CPS member all your income needs to be from professional photography. The fact that someone not in this category buys an 8000 dollar camera means nothing to Canon - we're back of the bus and they are TOTALLY rigid about every aspect of it.
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Dr. Gary

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2008, 12:58:41 am »

Quote
I guess that it depends on the application. For those doing fine art prints, more pixels are always welcome.

Most of my images nowadays are stitches made of 6 to 24 D3 images, with resulting resolutions in the 40 to 120 Mpixels (pretty good sharpeness per pixel), and that it overkill with my current Epson 4000, but will come very handy when I decide to invest in the next generation printing device.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184585\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have a bear of a time sticthing anymore than 4 shots together for a panoramic with my 1Dx MK II without Photoshop crashing and my computer has 4G of RAM. I finally got a 7 shot string of the Las Vegas skyline at night stitched and ended up with a 1.2G TIFF file. How do you stich 24 images together?

drgary
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Dansk

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2008, 01:40:15 am »

Great review Edmund. I especially appreciated the nod to the 1Ds its a beauty what a leap forward that camera was. I still have mine and I had tried the Nikon D1 prior ( umm yeah... tried keyword ) 2.4 mp whoa stand back.

In terms of the mk3? Meh I bought a clean used mk2 and will relegate the 1Ds to back up for now. The 3 isnt enough of an improvement for me to need at this point of the game and most of my work is shot tethered and USB is not cutting it ( at least on a mac ).
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BernardLanguillier

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2008, 03:14:30 am »

Quote
I have a bear of a time sticthing anymore than 4 shots together for a panoramic with my 1Dx MK II without Photoshop crashing and my computer has 4G of RAM. I finally got a 7 shot string of the Las Vegas skyline at night stitched and ended up with a 1.2G TIFF file. How do you stich 24 images together?

drgary
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By using the right tool for the job?

Much better options than PS include PTgui and Autopano Pro.

Files get large thouh, I was working on a 6.2 GB multi-layer pano the other day, no problem at all on my Mac Pro but you need robust hardware.

Cheers,
Bernard

Dr. Gary

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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2008, 02:31:34 am »

Quote
By using the right tool for the job?

Much better options than PS include PTgui and Autopano Pro.

Files get large thouh, I was working on a 6.2 GB multi-layer pano the other day, no problem at all on my Mac Pro but you need robust hardware.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184886\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have a state of the art PC with a fast processor and 4GB or RAM. Where can I find information and possible buy the two programs you are talking about. I have done some great work with Photoshop but some of the files required a lot of tweaking to get right after they were merged.

drgary
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David Sutton

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2008, 06:02:04 pm »

Quote
I have a state of the art PC with a fast processor and 4GB or RAM. Where can I find information and possible buy the two programs you are talking about. I have done some great work with Photoshop but some of the files required a lot of tweaking to get right after they were merged.

drgary
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Autopano Pro can be found at [a href=\"http://www.autopano.net/]http://www.autopano.net/[/url]. I bought it last year because it was the only one I could get to work "straight out of the  box" on the free trial. On my ancient Toshiba laptop with 1gb ram it works fine (but slooowly) stitching 8 images.
It is undergoing some major upgrades at the moment and really still needs some tweaking, but I like being able to set it going on my day's shots when I'm travelling, go out for supper, and come back to have all my panos stitched and ready for viewing. Saves a lot of time when I get home as well. Also being able to change the focus as I pan from one shot to the next to increase the depth of field is handy. Cheers, David
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BernardLanguillier

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2008, 06:14:34 pm »

Quote
I have a state of the art PC with a fast processor and 4GB or RAM. Where can I find information and possible buy the two programs you are talking about. I have done some great work with Photoshop but some of the files required a lot of tweaking to get right after they were merged.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185153\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Besides www.ptgui.com, I guess that I probably need to give you a pointer to www.google.com as a search engine

The main thing with the performance of ptgui is the speed of the scratch disk. I have 16GB RAM on my Mac and many cores, but ptgui doesn't use the RAM/CPU very efficiently. It does typically need a dedicated fast disk as scratch (I do personnally recommend a Raptor 150GB), or better yet a few of those configured in Raid 0. I would definitely avoid using your OS/Application HD as scratch disk, this will slow your system down a lot.

A fast disk storage system, RAM and CPU become important when you need to post-process your panoramas in PS. Forget about a NAS if you intend to use Adobe Bridge for instance...

One recent example of 24 images stitch for you:



I believe that ptgui required 50GB of scratch file to compute this image.

Cheers,
Bernard

Mark D Segal

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Canon 1Ds3/P45+ review
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2008, 06:39:15 pm »

Quote
Besides www.ptgui.com, I guess that I probably need to give you a pointer to www.google.com as a search engine

The main thing with the performance of ptgui is the speed of the scratch disk. I have 16GB RAM on my Mac and many cores, but ptgui doesn't use the RAM/CPU very efficiently. It does typically need a dedicated fast disk as scratch (I do personnally recommend a Raptor 150GB), or better yet a few of those configured in Raid 0. I would definitely avoid using your OS/Application HD as scratch disk, this will slow your system down a lot.

A fast disk storage system, RAM and CPU become important when you need to post-process your panoramas in PS. Forget about a NAS if you intend to use Adobe Bridge for instance...

One recent example of 24 images stitch for you:

I believe that ptgui required 50GB of scratch file to compute this image.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185282\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Pretty good Bernard - one can see just about every snow-flake. 1 byte of scratch-space per snowflake perhaps?  
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Ken R

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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2008, 07:01:01 pm »

While I would love to have a p45+, even if I could afford it, I would still need a 1Ds mark 3. While the mark 3 can do it all and still produce great results even in a magazine spread (even when used in high iso), the backs have limited use out in the field. Wide angle coverage is limited compared with a dslr (i shoot a lot of architecture) and high iso capability from what ive seen is strictly limited to iso 400 and only in emergency situations. In the film production sets that I sometimes shoot in there isnt a lot of light and even with high speed glass (which MF doesnt really have) high iso is required.

Also, Moire, with the 1Ds 3, no problem. With some phase backs that ive seen, it can become an issue that verges from minor inconvenience to a nightamare situation.

"Centerfold" issue with MFDB's, havent seen it first hand but read of a few cases. yikes.

Speed and reliability, 1Ds3, no contest. The backs while sturdy (phase seems to be the most reliable) arent sealed to the elements, battery performance is mediocre at best and the cameras dont like the heat and humidity (i live in the tropics)

I recently worked with Chris G (cool guy, http://www.westsidestudio.com )  from Westside studio and he was using a 645AFD2 with p45+ and the awesome 28mm mamiya lens (lens alone costs almost as much as a mark3). The files looked great but he was very weary of using iso 400 in one shot. It was an outdoor shot but light was low and people were part of the shot and motion blur was a concern.

So is the 1Ds mark3, "jack of all trades, master of none"?, well, its the best DSLR ever made, I have no doubt about this. We might be a tad spoiled nowadays with all the great choices in DSLRs that a camera like the 1Ds mark 3 might not look that impressive but man when I finally got it and used it for my work. Wow. Just like the 5D is the best compact DSLR ever made.

I still remember my first DSLR a fuji s2. I used it for several years and actually kept it until recently. I took 2 shots with both cameras (5D and fuji) of the same subject and composition, one at iso 200 and another at iso 800. Processed the raw images and took a look in photoshop (side by side). The 5D image just blew away the fuji S2 images even though i have made some awesome prints with the older camera and shot quite a few ad campaigns with it. 100% in ps is just brutal with gear.
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Dansk

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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2008, 07:12:58 pm »

Quote
Also, Moire, with the 1Ds 3, no problem. With some phase backs that ive seen, it can become an issue that verges from minor inconvenience to a nightamare situation.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185291\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


As a longtime Phase user I can second that. Denim jeans especially cause me FITS with Phase backs. Maybe the layout of the array causes this? There is a Moire app built into Capture One to deal with this but its a pain.
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