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Author Topic: Using color checker card and/or WB card?  (Read 17777 times)

Goldilocks

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« on: March 24, 2008, 05:20:27 pm »

The two areas that I shoot and sweat over on my PC is:
getting the correct color for my landscapes and
getting my  two dimensional artwork digitized for correct color printing.

I am about to buy a color checker card (and possibly a white balance card while I'm at it) I have no experience using these cards.
1. I see that MacBeth color checker card is discontinued, Is X-rite color card just as good?

2. I was thinking about shooting a mini color checker next to my artwork. For landscapes I was thinking of shooting a shot of the mini-checker under the current lighting of the landscape.
Do you know of any sites that will explain how I would use the color checker to correct my digital files/pictures for printing artwork and also using for color temperatures of "regular" photography? Other than using my computer software to click on white balance on a light grey spot on the color checker, is there anything else that I need to learn and understand? If the grey matches and the other colors don't then what?
 
3. I shoot in raw and occassionaly jpeg with a Canon Powershot s70 and s80 respectively. (Both have custom white balance available as camera settings)
Also, while I am ordering a color checker card, would a white balance card be of any help for me? (Custom white balance in the camera, for jpegs?) Can you use a grey card for custom white balance use when setting custom WB in the camera? If so, which card would one use? I see a lot of different WB cards listed. I don't quite understand what the differences of them are and how one decides which one they need.

Thanks
Linda
(Goldilocks)
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One Horse Studio

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 06:15:06 pm »

Check out the Expo Disc. This is what I use and get really good results on my color
balance. I do landscape photography. I believe this is for digital slrs only. Check their site.

Best Regards,
Greg....
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Goldilocks

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 11:34:24 pm »

Quote
Check out the Expo Disc. This is what I use and get really good results on my color
balance. I do landscape photography. I believe this is for digital slrs only. Check their site.

Best Regards,
Greg....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183982\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Unfortunately, my camera does not have the capability to attach a filter. So, I'm still looking for suggestions.
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digitaldog

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2008, 09:26:40 am »

Quote
1. I see that MacBeth color checker card is discontinued, Is X-rite color card just as good?

Same card.

If you can, place card in scene, white balance on 2nd white in the Raw converter. That's about it!
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Philmar

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2008, 09:46:14 am »

What about this gizmo?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...es/whibal.shtml

Why would one use this instead of the Gretag-MacBeth card?

digitaldog

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2008, 09:54:09 am »

Quote
What about this gizmo?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...es/whibal.shtml

Why would one use this instead of the Gretag-MacBeth card?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184121\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The nice thing about the Macbeth card are the other reference colors. But I wouldn't take it out in the snow or rain, plastic white balance cards would hold up better.
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Goldilocks

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2008, 02:08:15 pm »

Quote
Same card.

If you can, place card in scene, white balance on 2nd white in the Raw converter. That's about it!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184114\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What is the 2nd white in the Raw converter? Presently, I am using Raw Shooter Premium.
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Goldilocks

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2008, 02:17:13 pm »

Quote
What about this gizmo?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...es/whibal.shtml

Why would one use this instead of the Gretag-MacBeth card?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184121\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If one uses a white/grey balance card for in camera custom balance, does the card need to taKe up the whole picture frame to get an accurate reading/setting? I would imagine that this would be difficult to do with a mini-card in the field. What percentage of the frame does the card need to take up for setting an in-camera white balance? (This question is concerned when shooting in jpeg)
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digitaldog

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2008, 02:29:12 pm »

Quote
What is the 2nd white in the Raw converter? Presently, I am using Raw Shooter Premium.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184187\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

White balance, using whatever tool is provided on that square.

And yes, a smaller target makes this more difficult.
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gmitchel

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2008, 02:37:21 pm »

Quote
If one uses a white/grey balance card for in camera custom balance, does the card need to taKe up the whole picture frame to get an accurate reading/setting? I would imagine that this would be difficult to do with a mini-card in the field. What percentage of the frame does the card need to take up for setting an in-camera white balance? (This question is concerned when shooting in jpeg)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184189\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I like the MiniMacbeth CC Card for close-up and macro work. As Andrew says, you get more than just the white balance that way. It is small enough to easily fit in your pocket. It comes with a small plastic pouch to keep it dry.

It is pricey. Pretty much the same price as the full size Macbeth CC Card.

Unless you need precise colors for a subject, there really is little reason to hassle with an Expodisc, Macbeth CC Card, etc. Not if you shoot RAW. You can always adjust the WB in ACR or whatever RAW processor you use. Then adjust the tone and color as you would for any photograph.

Color calibration is important when you shoot commercial subjects. Vendors pay a lot for their logos and other branding, and those colors need to be accurate. Using something like a Macbeth CC Card is standard practice.

But for landscapes and such, working with a Macbeth CC Card is generally a PIA that slows you down *A LOT*. Same with an Expodisc. I have one. Neat tool. But I can adjust white balance when I load my RAW files. Unless I was doing a catalog shoot for a flower catalog, whether I got the exact color for a tulip I'm shooting is not something I much care about. I aim for a color that pleases my creative eye.

Cheers,

Mitch
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digitaldog

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2008, 02:44:56 pm »

Quote
It is pricey. Pretty much the same price as the full size Macbeth CC Card.

They are all actually hand made!
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Jack Varney

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2008, 07:56:06 pm »

Quote
If one uses a white/grey balance card for in camera custom balance, does the card need to taKe up the whole picture frame to get an accurate reading/setting? g)
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The whibal does not need to take much of the frame. Just enough to click the white balance eyedropper on it in your raw converter. I belive [a href=\"http://www.whibal.com]http://www.whibal.com[/url] has a video on using it.
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GregW

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2008, 09:11:36 pm »

Quote
What is the 2nd white in the Raw converter? Presently, I am using Raw Shooter Premium.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184187\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Second square in from the left on the bottom row.  On the back of the chart it should be labeled 'CC 20', 'Neutral 8'

« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 09:15:31 pm by GregW »
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juicy

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2008, 06:56:59 am »

Quote
If one uses a white/grey balance card for in camera custom balance, does the card need to taKe up the whole picture frame to get an accurate reading/setting? I would imagine that this would be difficult to do with a mini-card in the field. What percentage of the frame does the card need to take up for setting an in-camera white balance? (This question is concerned when shooting in jpeg)
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi!

In this case you would need to fill the entire frame with the neutral target such as the Gretag/X-rite/Munsell white balance-card ( [a href=\"http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=944]http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=944[/url]  ).

Cheers,
J
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dmward

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2008, 08:38:01 am »

2. I was thinking about shooting a mini color checker next to my artwork.

Linda,
I use the large Color Checker next to artwork. Then use the Selective Color layer in Photoshop to adjust the Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Cyan and Magenta squares to the proper color. Also the Black, Midtone and White.

This provides a "preset" color correction layer for art that is shot using the same light source.

It is not perfect but does deliver an image that is reasonably close to the artwork's color.

I generally do the color correcting in ProPhoto, then convert the image to sRGB before saving to web in Photoshop. These web images are acceptable when viewed on a "normal" monitor.

David
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sojournerphoto

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2008, 08:51:14 am »

Quote
2. I was thinking about shooting a mini color checker next to my artwork.

Linda,
I use the large Color Checker next to artwork. Then use the Selective Color layer in Photoshop to adjust the Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Cyan and Magenta squares to the proper color. Also the Black, Midtone and White.

This provides a "preset" color correction layer for art that is shot using the same light source.

It is not perfect but does deliver an image that is reasonably close to the artwork's color.

I generally do the color correcting in ProPhoto, then convert the image to sRGB before saving to web in Photoshop. These web images are acceptable when viewed on a "normal" monitor.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184381\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

An alternative is to shoot the colour checker card under the light you will be using for the artwork and then run the Tindeman script to calibrate ACR. This should get you closer out of the raw converter.

Mike.
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dmward

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2008, 11:06:08 am »

Mike,
I do the script to get the color checker/camera/light profile.
Then I do the selective color to get a more accurate color rendition of the artwork.

I strongly suggest that anyone using a color checker do the script to get a camera "preset" for ACR.

I have one for sun, one for my strobes and one for table top strobe setup.

When doing artwork I do a color checker shot before doing the artwork and run a script on that as well. Then do the selective color as an additional correction.

David
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Goldilocks

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2008, 02:29:39 pm »

Quote
Mike,

When doing artwork I do a color checker shot before doing the artwork and run a script on that as well. Then do the selective color as an additional correction.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184421\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That sounds logical to me. How complicated is this to do? IOW what level of expertise does one need and are you? What script do you use?

Also, I'll be away from home for another month, without a decent monitor: just an HP laptop with terrible glare. I just picked up the mini MacBeth color checker card and would like to shot my artwork so that I can make prints at home. (Most of the originals will not be going home with me) What are the important things that I should do for shooting the artwork? I'll be shooting watercolors and pastels, sizes 12 x 18 inches and smaller. I'm working from other peoples homes: Tungsten, daylight (outdoor or indirect indoor), shade, and built-in camera flash are all that I can think of that is available.
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Nill Toulme

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2008, 02:38:28 pm »

What does one do with the other colors on the color checker chart?  I mean other than the gray used for one click WB?  IOW, what would the color checker chart do for me that the WhiBal does not?

Nill
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« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 02:39:18 pm by Nill Toulme »
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Philmar

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Using color checker card and/or WB card?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2008, 04:46:33 pm »

Quote
What does one do with the other colors on the color checker chart?  I mean other than the gray used for one click WB?  IOW, what would the color checker chart do for me that the WhiBal does not?

Nill
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[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184497\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

...and why would one use the gray card to check white balance?
Wouldn't one use the white card?
So then what purpose do the black and white card serve?
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