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Author Topic: 1Ds III image quality  (Read 7151 times)

jeffok

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1Ds III image quality
« on: January 06, 2008, 07:40:49 pm »

I had a chance to do some informal testing of my new 1Ds III over the past couple of days. Before I got the camera, I had been busy doing my research to determine the sharpest lenses in each range I wanted in anticipation of receiving my 1Ds III sometime this month and, surprise!, the dealer called Friday and said it was in (I am in Edmonton, Alberta and Vistek got me the camera a lot sooner than I thought it might be as I see many of us in N. America are still waiting...).  

First, I went out with all my lenses and shot frames of each lens at every focal major focal length and aperture, all raw. I wanted to determine the optimum lens setting for each lens with this camera as I had been reading that the 1Ds III is unforgiving of lenses. The first time I did this, I came back and was shocked at the poor quality of some of the images- they seemed really soft and wouldn't sharpen up. In the case of the 16-35 II,  16mm and  f/2.8 was really as bad up to f/5.6, the 50mm 1.4 was horrible from 1.4- 2.8 and even the 70-200 was not as sharp as I thought it should be so I knew something was amiss. All images were shot on a Gitzo 1298 tripod, with a cable release so I thought this strange.

After going through them in Lightroom, I decided to redo my little test. This time, I was much more careful about my tripod placement (cleared the snow off the ground this time!), but was especially careful where I placed the focus points.  I put the lens on manual focus to get a consistent focus point for each shot. Then in turn, went thru all my lenses: 16-35L II, 35L, 45 TSE, 50 f/1.4, 24-105 f/4, 70-200 f/4 IS, 100 macro.

Back in my studio, checked through LT again- this time- WOW! What an improvement! The images have such incredible detail and even at 16mm and f/2.8 - the softest setting on my version of the lens, the print I made at 17 X22 @240 ppi is stunning in the detail and tack sharp after sharpening in LR. I must day that the images at first glance don't look that impressive and a bit soft. But once you zoom in, say at 2:1 you can really see how much there is there. Until about 2 years ago I was shooting MF and I thought I would never see a digital SLR approach MF for resolution, depth and contrast. But this camera does deliver and I can safely retire the 6X7 for my big print needs.

What I have learned is three things with this camera: one is that you have to have the very best lenses (even after my second test the 50mm 1.4 is still bad from 1.4- 2.8 so it must be that this lenses weak point becomes very apparent at 21 MP because it looked fine with my XTi). Second, be extra careful, more than with any other camera, about where you put the focus points. Even when one or two of the focus points are on infinity and the rest are on an object much closer, you are not going to get a perfectly focused image at f/2.8 with that depth of field. Second is that sharpening is important with these images. I found that setting of amount 133 ands radius 0.5, detail of 40 worked well for a typical landscape shot with lots of detail.

I would be interested to know what other owners of this camera have found with their experience so far and what you do for sharpening these images.
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Tim Gray

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2008, 07:53:04 pm »

Definitely as a "system" it's not particularly forgiving, but with care the detail is impressive.  Some lenses fare better than others, but fortunately there's some truth to the cliche that "all lenses are good at f8".  I also was a bit surprised as to how soft the unprocessed images are, but equally surprised at how well they sharpen up.  My default starting point in LR is amount 100, radius 1 and detail about 30, but as soon as it hits photoshop it gets another 1 pix of focus magic.  

FWIW, my biggest gripe was the amount of dust on the sensor, out of the box and resistant to the visible dust brush.
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Mike Chini

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2008, 09:18:28 pm »

Guys-

Exactly what would you say are the most significant improvements?  My criticisms of the 1dsii were the obvious ones - firewire 4-pin not 6, no MLU etc and I'm also no fan of the size of the thing but overall, I think the file quality is very impressive for a great many subjects.
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Andy M

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2008, 09:43:56 pm »

I sent this to a fellow 1Ds mk3 owner earlier today:

"I received my 1Ds mk III yesterday and have shot a dozen or so informal portraits with it.

I've noticed that the camera is exceptionally unfair to anybody who has less than perfect skin - if you have a blemish it will pick it up and put a neon sign next to it.

I'm basically having to throw my current sharpening technique out of the window and start again, and was wondering how you'd been getting on?

I found my 5D to be very forgiving, but the 1Ds 3 is a monster!"

Currently I appear to be specialising in making young beautiful people look old and haggard  
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jeffok

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2008, 11:15:09 pm »

Quote
Guys-

Exactly what would you say are the most significant improvements?  My criticisms of the 1dsii were the obvious ones - firewire 4-pin not 6, no MLU etc and I'm also no fan of the size of the thing but overall, I think the file quality is very impressive for a great many subjects.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165539\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, first off I did not own the 1Ds II- I was coming from MF film and a Canon 20D  so I couldn't say what the improvements are. However, aside from the high IQ from these files, I like:
the menu's ( well laid out and fast and easy to use, custom settings can really fine tune the machine to your way of working, I actually like how they implemented "safety shift" and combined with the exposure limiting function it is as good as or better than auto ISO, the viewfinder is BIG and bright and lots of info in the finder, the ergos fit my hand very nicely, works like a dream with the 580EXII, etc, etc. There has been so much fuss over there not being a mirror lock-up button- it's a non-issue as far as I am concerned. It WAS an issue using a Pentax 67 (and I suspect the owner of this website still can't forget that) but I shot 6 apertures at every focal length with all my lenses (including telephoto) with and without MLU and I can tell you there was no discernible difference at all between the images. None. Sure, if you're shooting at 1/2 second you may want to use it but the live view works just as well and achieves the same effect. Yeah, it's big and heavy but for $8k, I like the weight and heft- makes me feel like I got my money's worth:)

What do I wish it had? Higher ISO settings would be nice (even if noisy), a higher rez LCD panel (although this one is very bright and clear), and a bigger buffer. Other than that, it's perfect for what I do. I used to be a Nikon guy and sold my stuff 4 years ago and went Canon and still don't regret it.
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canmiya

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2008, 12:23:45 pm »

Quote
Guys-

Exactly what would you say are the most significant improvements?  My criticisms of the 1dsii were the obvious ones - firewire 4-pin not 6, no MLU etc and I'm also no fan of the size of the thing but overall, I think the file quality is very impressive for a great many subjects.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165539\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

it is rarely mentioned, but imo, one of the most significant improvements is the metering...(63 zones as opposed to the former 21)... as for sharpening, i have been using pixel genius' photokit sharperner and it works very well.
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Mike Chini

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2008, 12:47:11 pm »

Thanks guys.  BTW, if you enable the Mirror up custom function, you can then use the 2 or 3 second timer as a MLU feature.
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nemophoto

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2008, 01:25:05 pm »

Quote
I sent this to a fellow 1Ds mk3 owner earlier today:

"I received my 1Ds mk III yesterday and have shot a dozen or so informal portraits with it.

I've noticed that the camera is exceptionally unfair to anybody who has less than perfect skin - if you have a blemish it will pick it up and put a neon sign next to it.

I'm basically having to throw my current sharpening technique out of the window and start again, and was wondering how you'd been getting on?

I found my 5D to be very forgiving, but the 1Ds 3 is a monster!"

Currently I appear to be specialising in making young beautiful people look old and haggard 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165541\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That's the "advantage" of better glass and more pixels. Shooting fashion and beauty, not an image leaves my computer without some form of skin softening. I had to laugh when I saw the most recent Duggal ad on the back of PDN ("Capture to Cover"). In the past five years, I've shot one girl who truly had flawless, poreless skin -- I would have had to work incredibly hard to make her look bad. With the advent of digital retouching in recent years, I've seen a plethora of girls who would never have made it in the "old days" (i.e. - 1980's) because of imperfections.
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pete_truman

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2008, 05:19:07 pm »

There's detail within the detail! Compared with some of my older images the 1Ds3 images are quite amazing and printing very large is so much easier with the extra resolution (even compared to my 5D there's a big difference)

My biggest gripe is that the RAW files are not yet supported by Aperture, so having once again to play with ACR. I have had to change my sharpening approach to increase the amount but as others have said once this is done the images are simply stunning in terms of the detail.

Having come from a 5D my favourite improvements are:

1. Resolution
2. Handling - its bigger but so much better balanced
3. Custom menu (even MLU is now not far away!)

On the downside, the images are not forgiving and even the slightest shake is captured most beautifully
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Pete Truman

phila

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2008, 02:26:43 am »

Quote
There's detail within the detail! Compared with some of my older images the 1Ds3 images are quite amazing and printing very large is so much easier with the extra resolution (even compared to my 5D there's a big difference)

My biggest gripe is that the RAW files are not yet supported by Aperture, so having once again to play with ACR. I have had to change my sharpening approach to increase the amount but as others have said once this is done the images are simply stunning in terms of the detail.

Having come from a 5D my favourite improvements are:

1. Resolution
2. Handling - its bigger but so much better balanced
3. Custom menu (even MLU is now not far away!)

On the downside, the images are not forgiving and even the slightest shake is captured most beautifully
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165718\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Coming from a 1D MkII... it's all good! Really appreciating the extra image area. Battery life is fantastic. Live view works really well. And yes still working on the best sharpening amounts.

Colorwave

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2008, 12:33:57 pm »

Quote
There's detail within the detail! Compared with some of my older images the 1Ds3 images are quite amazing and printing very large is so much easier with the extra resolution (even compared to my 5D there's a big difference)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165718\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm wondering how large you and others have tried printing, and with what type of subject matter?  I've been a little disappointed with how large some highly textured 1DsMk2 images enlarge for printing.  Think you can squeeze a 30" x 40" out of a detailed landscape?
-Ron H.
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-Ron H.
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sojournerphoto

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1Ds III image quality
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2008, 07:09:14 pm »

Quote
I'm wondering how large you and others have tried printing, and with what type of subject matter?  I've been a little disappointed with how large some highly textured 1DsMk2 images enlarge for printing.  Think you can squeeze a 30" x 40" out of a detailed landscape?
-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165908\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The biggest succesful single frame image from my 5D to date is 30 by 15 inches (effectively 30 by 20). It works because although there's a lot of foliage detail it's clarity and detail isn't critical to the image. There are others that I am not comfortable at 24 by 16 and one that I am not happy at any size from 15 by 10 up. In fairness I think the last one contains detail right at the theoretical sampling limit so it hasnt really resolved what I wanted. It's very image dependent I think, and the upsizing technique can also have an impact on the perception of the final print.

Mike
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