Topic: Idea for theft protection (Read 7124 times)

John Camp · « **on:** January 01, 2008, 06:39:41 pm »

As I was looking through the functions of my new D3, it occurred to me that since it's effectively a pretty sophisticated computer, that you could have an optional, user-selected function that would pop up every so often at the user's direction (like every fifth or twentieth time a card is inserted) that would require the input of a password -- maybe, say, a ten-letter password. After the ten-letter password is failed x number of times (like 5), you'd have to go on-line with the company's website, and provide them with the answers to your secret questions before you'd get the function back.

Of course, you could also opt to simply turn the lock-up function off.

But if you turned it on, while traveling, you'd have the satisfaction of knowing that a thief and whoever he sold the camera to would not get more than x number of actuations off the camera, and if they called the company or went to a repair shop to get it fixed, the police could be notified or whatever. In any case, the camera wouldn't work. If there were a subtle built-in hardware code reader for this (something like a dongle) it might be hackable, but the hack would probably cost as much as a new camera, and the first guy to hack it would have to destroy his $5,000 camera to get at it...

Punching in the code would be a pain in the ass, of course, but if you did it at the minimum that you knew you could stand, it'd be okay...

Also -- I'm just thinking this up as I go along -- you could have a little padlock symbol that showed up the LCD, and after this kind of lock-up became known, a potential buyer could look at the LCD and if the padlock was there, he wouldn't buy it from the thief; so it would become known that the cameras weren't worth stealing.

JC

Jonathan Wienke · « **Reply #1 on:** January 01, 2008, 09:11:37 pm »

A simple passcode entered when the power switch was turned from OFF to ON (and not when the camera simply woke up from sleep mode) would perform the function just as well and not even give the thief the benefit of an X-exposure grace period to foist the camera off on an unsuspecting buyer.

mattyoung · « **Reply #2 on:** January 01, 2008, 09:28:28 pm »

This is a great idea.

The same should be used to protect lenses as lenses are very valuable, too. The lens is bricked and useless on any camera unless you can unlock the camera. When a lens is put on a new camera, you must first unlock. Sort of mate for once or mate for life until breakup.

Of course all these security is optional. You can enable or disable...

John Camp · « **Reply #3 on:** January 01, 2008, 10:00:15 pm »

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A simple passcode entered when the power switch was turned from OFF to ON (and not when the camera simply woke up from sleep mode) would perform the function just as well and not even give the thief the benefit of an X-exposure grace period to foist the camera off on an unsuspecting buyer.
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Also not a bad idea, for people who don't demand instant-on response. The code pad could probably have a number of display options. In your version, as soon as the switch went on, the pad would come up on the LCD and you'd enter the code. Once you got used to it, it wouldn't take more than a few seconds -- and if you used a type pad of the kind used to write "comments" in the Nikons, with all the letters and numbers, and if you had a "time out" feature that only allowed you a certain number of tries before it froze, then you probably wouldn't need more than a 3-letter code. (With 26 letters plus ten digits, what are the chances of a thief hitting a specific three-letter code in five tries?)

For the people who want instant-on, the embedded code pad might be better, since it would allow you ~200 raws per card, and if you made the limit four cards, you probably could just enable it at the beginning of each heavy-work day, and never have to go back to it. Or you could make it one card, and that would be it.

But all the numbers, and when the pad comes up, and the ability to turn it off on, should all be user-selectable.

JC

TMcCulley · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2008, 01:20:48 am »

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As I was looking through the functions of my new D3, it occurred to me that since it's effectively a pretty sophisticated computer, that you could have an optional, user-selected function that would pop up every so often at the user's direction (like every fifth or twentieth time a card is inserted) that would require the input of a password -- maybe, say, a ten-letter password. After the ten-letter password is failed x number of times (like 5), you'd have to go on-line with the company's website, and provide them with the answers to your secret questions before you'd get the function back.

JC
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JC

This is one of those cases of be careful what you ask for. I am certain that a quality security system could be designed and implemented that would allow the photographer to secure or safe guard his/her gear. But there are many more likely implementations that would wind up driving you crazy. This is not as simple as it seems

Tom

sniper · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2008, 04:53:25 pm »

A great idea that probably won't work in the real world.
Sadly the thief will no doubt either find a simple way of defeating the system (like coded radios) or worse they would simply put a gun to the photographers head and tell him to unlock it before they steal the thing.
I suspect the people most caught out will be us the photographers by forgetting the code! lol Wayne

Diapositivo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2008, 03:13:27 pm »

I think the main problem in this approach is that the thief has complete control of the hardware.
He can reset everything to factory defaults, or, if this is prevented by the camera, he can simply re-install the firmware.

So you should have the firmware on a "read-only" memory (ROM), which means it cannot be updated without changing the chip on the board, and that would be commercially unwise.

You might think of writing on a ROM only the part of code which makes the camera "secure" and leave the rest on a normal re-writeable memory (EPROM), but then it would be possible to reprogram the EPROM with a re-engineered firmware that simply ignores the security features (by writing a function which "captures" any call to the security functions and suppresses them or just returns an OK answer in stead of the security function).

Also having everything on an EPROM would not protect you that much, because the obvious necessity to upgrade the firmware would oblige the maker to mount the EPROM on a socket (instead of soldering it to the motherboard). That would mean easy substitution of the EPROM with another EPROM not just for the service laboratory but also for the thief.

So your degree of protection is limited to the willingness of the "stealing crowd" to reverse engineer the code. As far as I know, reverse engineering of cameras' firmware already happens (to disable anti-aliasing filters for instance) so I would not see as very unlikely that somebody makes an "unsecure version" of the firmware and sells it to thiefs.

Having said that, I don't think it is a bad idea at all, because whenever you raise the difficulty of the theft you decrease its statistical occurrence, but it certainly is not something that is going to stop theft dramatically.

Cheers
Fabrizio

simonius · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2008, 04:37:17 pm »

I hope you're enjoying your D3 as much as I am - amazing camera.

We're thinking about a trip to Turkey this coming summer (two weeks in Constantinople and then a week on a Turkish beach) so security and the D3 are on my mind big time.

On the one hand, I would love to spend a day or two in Hagia Sophia with my D3.

On the other, being a tourist in a crowd with that camera feels like asking for real trouble.

I was thinking of an "analog" solution -- a strong wire attached to the camera, and then to my belt.

BradSmith · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2008, 06:19:47 pm »

Your equipment isn't protected by this gambit. It's already STOLEN!!! You may be screwing with the new "owner's" ability to use what they've got, but it is in THEIR hands, not yours. You still have to replace it.

If you want to protect your camera, figure out how to keep in your possession.

dwdallam · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2008, 08:01:33 pm »

IR iris eye reader. As soon as you hold the camera up to the viewfinder, it scans your eye and unlocks the camera AND lens. No pass codes to forget or enter.

Lisa Nikodym · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2008, 12:10:29 am »

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We're thinking about a trip to Turkey this coming summer (two weeks in Constantinople and then a week on a Turkish beach) so security and the D3 are on my mind big time.

On the one hand, I would love to spend a day or two in Hagia Sophia with my D3.

On the other, being a tourist in a crowd with that camera feels like asking for real trouble.

I've been to Istanbul several times, and I wouldn't worry about your camera. It's a reasonably safe place, safer than most big cities in Europe & North America. (As long as you don't do anything truly foolish like wandering around in a worse neighborhood by yourself late at night, and the like.) There will be plenty of tourists with all kinds of cameras, and you won't stand out.

And yes, Hagia Sophia is stunning.

Lisa

TMcCulley · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2008, 12:42:04 am »

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Having said that, I don't think it is a bad idea at all, because whenever you raise the difficulty of the theft you decrease its statistical occurrence, but it certainly is not something that is going to stop theft dramatically.

Cheers
Fabrizio
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Not a good idea. Why is it that every security/safety issue or rule puts the innocent in jail while allowing the crooks/terroist to be free?

Tom

augg · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2008, 07:43:22 am »

Great idea. Remember years back when car stereos were a popular target of thieves? Volkswagen introduced a great way to deter theft. When power was cut from a unit a password had to be entered for the thing to operate again when the power was reintroduced. Volkswagen stereos couldn't be resold so thefts were reduced.
I don't think most thieves are sophisticated enough to hack into any camera security system. Some buyers might, but they'd know for sure they were buying a stolen camera.

dan

dwdallam · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2008, 05:19:34 am »

Because it's a plot to undermine freedom and goodness and to promote evil and shackle you to the slavery of sociopaths and terrorists.

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Not a good idea. Why is it that every security/safety issue or rule puts the innocent in jail while allowing the crooks/terroist to be free?

Tom
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Rob C · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2008, 12:29:56 pm »

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Because it's a plot to undermine freedom and goodness and to promote evil and shackle you to the slavery of sociopaths and terrorists.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165848\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As my late mother-in-law used to ask: why is it that we old folks have to stay in and off the streets whilst the criminals are free to walk them at will?

Rob C

Misirlou · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2008, 06:50:14 pm »

Maybe once the GPS tagging process becomes mature, the cameras could be made to call home to the factory from time to time with their locations. If they were stolen, the last coordinates could be sent to the original owner.

Come to think of it, I still shoot with a number of film cameras that were built before I was born. I have no way of knowing if any, or all, of them were stolen at some point.

Raoul · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2008, 05:59:10 am »

(deleted, duplicate idea)

jjj · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2008, 06:19:03 am »

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As my late mother-in-law used to ask: why is it that we old folks have to stay in and off the streets whilst the criminals are free to walk them at will?[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166151\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Because the old folks erroneously believe they are at greater risk than the kids.
The people mostly likely to be the victim of violent crime [in the UK] are 18-25yr olds. It just on the very rare occaiosion a pensioner gets attacked, it makes the front page and it simply scares older people unnessecarily.
People confuse perception with the truth. All the time.

Misirlou · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2008, 10:12:11 am »

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Because the old folks erroneously believe they are at greater risk than the kids.
The people mostly likely to be the victim of violent crime [in the UK] are 18-25yr olds. It just on the very rare occaiosion a pensioner gets attacked, it makes the front page and it simply scares older people unnessecarily.
People confuse perception with the truth. All the time.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167287\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Theft of a DSLR, though certainly an evil act, is hardly a "violent" crime, and I don't suppose there are too many at-risk teenagers walking around with a 1DsMkIII or something.

Now, if someone stole my old Rolleiflex 2.8, that might make me violent.

sniper · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2008, 05:10:44 pm »

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Great idea. Remember years back when car stereos were a popular target of thieves? Volkswagen introduced a great way to deter theft. When power was cut from a unit a password had to be entered for the thing to operate again when the power was reintroduced. Volkswagen stereos couldn't be resold so thefts were reduced.

dan
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These were easly beaten, they just shorted out a chip inside, or you could even send them away to get them unlocked! like mobile phones now, most phone shop will "unlock" a locked phone no problem.
To attach your camera securly try 100lb+ wire trace (for fishing) any good tackle shop will make you one up with a belt clip (or something similar) then you can stop a quick grab type theft, just hope nobody in a passing car grabs it though! Wayne

Author Topic: Idea for theft protection (Read 7124 times)