Difference between single & multi

[Dustbak]

After having gotten this question quite often, does the difference between single en multishot show, I have setup to do some samples.

The first during a little coffee break. This one actually doesn't show that big a difference unless you know what to look for.

I will post some more examples if people wish, over the weekend. I try to get some of the usual suspects clothing & stuff with tiny details. The season is over so not much stuff laying around at the moment.

Naturally you can request stuff and I will see if I can fullfill.

I will post links without saying which is which.

first images;

http://www.peperkamp.com/samples/SInglevsMulti0001.jpg
http://www.peperkamp.com/samples/SInglevsMulti0002.jpg

These are taken with an Imacon 384 on DigiflexII with ZF50/2.0, cropped at 12.5MP (4:3). Saved from Flex to DNG and subsequently converted to JPG via the image processor. No sharpening, etc..

When I do stumble onto one where the difference is significant I will put on the CF39 to compare as well.

I know there are more people that use multishot. I am sure some have already good examples of the difference maybe they can post these as well?

Thx!

[Graham Mitchell]

In less then a second of seeing no.2 I knew it was the MS. Definitely cleaner edges.

[ynp]

Thank you for your time and the files. A lot of difference!

I am waiting for the Sinarback 54H from Sinar , is is supposed to arrive in a week or two . I bought a damaged back on ebay on the advice of Thierry and some other posters to MFD forum. The back was repaired by Sinar and should be in an almost new condition.  
I am going to have  3 backs (54H, e54LV and e75) for some time while I am  selling  one of my eMotion backs. I will try to send some files from all of them to the forum as soon as I am comfortable with the Capture Shop multi shot workflow.
Yevgeny

[jpjespersen]

how many MB's were each of these raw files?

[Dustbak]

The single shot DNG was appr. 21Mb. The Multishot DNG was 96Mb. I will post more tomorrow.

Ah... Yevgeny. You bought the back that got lost with UPS  What was wrong with it? I am sure you have a fantastic piece of equipment for that price!

[ynp]

Ah... Yevgeny. You bought the back that got lost with UPS  What was wrong with it? I am sure you have a fantastic piece of equipment for that price!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157019\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, the lost and found. To be honest I dont know what was wrong with the 54h. I asked the seller to mail the back to Sinar directly, I have not seen the back yet. The price was VERY good, I was prepared to pay more. It is interesting that the owners of the 54 H backs who upgraded to 75H do not part with their 54H and keep the 22 mpx backs as backups. No used 54Hs on the market here in Russia .
Yevgeny

[thsinar]

Dear All,

I shall post a comparison sample as well at the soonest.

Best regards,
Thierry

[Henry Goh]

-deleted-

[thsinar]

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Edited for Addendum and Correction:

I have been in communication with Henry via PM and asked him to take back his writing of:

QUOTE "Henry_Goh"
"... but seems to me many times you say you would check or do something but never materialize..."

He preferred instead to delete his post.

As per my question about the particular case for which he claimed that I did not deliver any answer: it was actually answered by me and directly by PM as promised. The image in question, taken with an eMotion 54 LV was under-exposed and used with "noise reduction" at the maximum, thus desaturating the colors.

Thierry
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I beg your pardon?!

I guess I have always hold on my promises here, so far. If it happens that I did forget something, then my sincere apologies.

Would you please le tme know specifically WHAT you are refering too?

"seems to me many times ....": I wish you to take this back and can't accept it, am sorry!

Can you emphasize and tell me WHAT are the "many times"

I have said I shall post multishot samples and I will, just let me time to get it.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thiery,

Not to knock you but seems to me many times you say you would check or do something but never materialize.  I remember a thread where samples shot on a Sinar back was posted and image quality was poor.  You said you would check with your technical people and come back.  I never saw anything afterwards.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157187\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[TechTalk]

The difference in image sharpness and resolution is readily apparent in multi-shot and single shot. Having full color information captured for each pixel (100% captured color data) versus single-shot interpolation (1/3 captured color data + 2/3 interpolation) shows up in many areas, but the sharpness difference is always the first thing that I notice.

H3D-39MS PDF Link

[Natasa Stojsic]

The difference in image sharpness and resolution is readily apparent in multi-shot and single shot. Having full color information captured for each pixel (100% captured color data) versus single-shot interpolation (1/3 captured color data + 2/3 interpolation) shows up in many areas, but the sharpness difference is always the first thing that I notice.

H3D-39MS PDF Link
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157195\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am not familiar with multi shot digital backs at all, so I would like to ask if H3D39MSII can be used as a single shot too for portraits or is it studio/table-top Multi Shot digital back Only?

[thsinar]

Dear Natasa,

All multishot backs have as well the single-shot mode incorporated.

Best regards,
Thierry

I am not familiar with multi shot digital backs at all, so I would like to ask if H3D39MSII can be used as a single shot too for portraits or is it studio/table-top Multi Shot digital back Only?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157199\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Dustbak]

The H3DIIMS can be used in single shot & multishot mode (no microstep, yet?). Multishot mode only tethered, AFAIK but I would love to be corrected in that area.

[Dustbak]

Some more images. Again converted from Flexcolor to DNG and saved as JPG. No sharpening, etc..


Taken at ISO100/8sec/H2/80mm/f5.6

http://www.peperkamp.com/samples/MultivsSingle001.jpg
http://www.peperkamp.com/samples/MultivsSingle002.jpg

Taken at ISO200/4sec/H2/80mm/f5.6

http://www.peperkamp.com/samples/MultivsSingle003.jpg
http://www.peperkamp.com/samples/MultivsSingle004.jpg

Taken at ISO400/2sec/H2/80mm/f5.6

http://www.peperkamp.com/samples/MultivsSingle005.jpg
http://www.peperkamp.com/samples/MultivsSingle006.jpg

I think especially at ISO400 it is very clear which is multi and which is single. All have been taken with available light but that is probably pretty clear from the fairly long exposures.

[E_Edwards]

Minor difference really, most noticeable on text and the lack of jagged edges on the 4-shot.

These results are consistant with my own experience with the Imacon I used to have.

However, I upgraded to Leaf, new technology,  because I could not see the difference between the 4-shot Imacon and the one shot Leaf in terms of line jaggies. The one-shot  Leaf A65 captured more detail (without any jaggies) and it was far, far quicker.

I'm interested in these tests because I would really like to see a subtantial difference in quality with current 4-shot cameras. I'm not convinced that there is a clear superior back (to the Leaf) in terms of capturing fine detail.

If there is a manufacturer who is positive that their backs are noticeable better at capturing sharp detail, please come forward with evidence that will motivate me to test and possibly upgrade.

Edward

[Dustbak]

I find the difference, especially at higher ISO, quite significant. Depending on what you do you could be needing it or not.

Sure the A65 has more detail than 16MP. This was not about detail, higher resolution or more MP. Have you ever compared 16shot (64MP) with the A65? I can assure you it has a lot more detail than the 28MP of the Aptus. At 16MP it already had less jagged edges, less color garbage, less moire and better transitions.

I also do a lot of fabric, as soon as I get some in I will compare that as well. I got the MS especially to deal with moire. Hopefully it will save me a couple of hours per assignment retouching/correcting moire.

Lets not forget a MS back is a quite specialized tool and not the right tool for everyone or in every situation. It fits in a niche of the usability scope of MFDB (which in itself is a very small market).

[ixpressraf]

This is an image I shot with Ray's back some month's ago: if you cannot see the difference clearely there is something wrong with your screen or eyes    .

[E_Edwards]

The 16-shot difference can clearly be seen in your sample, but unfortunately 16 shots is not too practical an option in a studio environment where you have to churn out the stuff quickly. I did use the 16 shot option once in a while, when I needed very large files for massive POS posters, but I now find I can do better and quicker by simply getting closer and either stitch or do two or three quick focus exposures and joining.

For 99.9 per cent of my commercial work, I find that a 100 Mb file and one shot is just what I require for brochure and advertising work, once it goes to print, these minute differences never materialise.


However, I would be very interested to see the difference between a 4-shot Hasselblad CF39 MS and say, an Aptus 75 or PhaseOne P45. I bet you the difference is practically imperceptible. It all boils down to operational preferences.

My own preference was that I needed  Live Video for extremelly accurate focussing, and all else being equal, I went for the Leaf simply because of that.

Edward

[pprdigital]

The 16-shot difference can clearly be seen in your sample, but unfortunately 16 shots is not too practical an option in a studio environment where you have to churn out the stuff quickly. I did use the 16 shot option once in a while, when I needed very large files for massive POS posters, but I now find I can do better and quicker by simply getting closer and either stitch or do two or three quick focus exposures and joining.

For 99.9 per cent of my commercial work, I find that a 100 Mb file and one shot is just what I require for brochure and advertising work, once it goes to print, these minute differences never materialise.
However, I would be very interested to see the difference between a 4-shot Hasselblad CF39 MS and say, an Aptus 75 or PhaseOne P45. I bet you the difference is practically imperceptible. It all boils down to operational preferences.

My own preference was that I needed  Live Video for extremelly accurate focussing, and all else being equal, I went for the Leaf simply because of that.

Edward
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157446\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Edward:

The differences between single shot and multi-shot can be similar to the differences between a MFDB file and a Canon 1DS file. For many shots, the differences will appear quite minimal. Though there's no question the multi-shot is better, for a lot of subject matter the difference will be so slight you'll hardly notice. But then - just as with a Canon vs MFDB - you'll shoot something where the difference is greater, and it's no contest.

The samples I've seen posted on this thread aren't the best examples of the differences I've seen. Texture, shadow detail are particular areas that illustrate the differences.

And it is true that as MFDB's have gone up in resolution, algorithms have improved and now seeing aliasing (jaggies) on edge detail, color artifacting (algorithmic errors) and moire patterns has diminished significantly. But there is still no question that multi-shot is superior - sometimes minimally, sometimes substantially, depending on subject matter.

I have many customers who own multi-shot capture devices, and interestingly some of them shoot mostly single shot with their units. I've showed them the difference between the captures and some realize they're missing the boat, quality-wise, while others continue with single shot because it's good enough and more convenient for them. Preferring single shot is a matter of convenience.

If someone comes to me and asks for the highest quality solution available (for still subjects), they're going to get a multi-shot product (assuming they can afford it).

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

[Dustbak]

Steve,

If you have any where the difference is more pronounced please post!

I have seen better examples to show the difference in quality as well but it seems everytime I get around posting stuff I never seem to find those spectacular sample images  

On the other hand, there is also not much wrong with just creating some typical images and just compare the differences, IMO. That might also be the reason some people have MS backs but hardly use it in multishot mode. Sometimes single is enough and you don't bother to do the extra effort for that little bit extra, I guess.

I thought I would see huge differences with jewelry but that wasn't the case. I expect clothing next week, I hope multishot will make my life easier with that!

Good analogy  the difference between IDSIII and MFDB (in some ways)