How many aperture blades?

[bradleygibson]

I am getting some rather disturbing pentagonal bokeh with my Hasselblad 500-series Zeiss glass at apertures other than wide open.

Does anyone know how many aperture blades are in the new Hy6 AFD lenses?

For those of you in the know, or who have recently handled some of these lenses in Israel, did you happen to note the number or shape of (straight vs. rounded) the aperture blades?

I'm also curious about Rollei 6008 (AF and manual glass), as, at least for the time being, the AFD glass lineup comes up short in the tele department.

Thanks,
Brad

[Stefan.Steib]

Bradley

I think that probably there will be 5 Blades as with most new shutterblades made by prontor.

On the opposite I know that the bukeh will definitely suffer from this. This is the reason why we at hartblei build in 12 !!! Blades in our Aperture

http://digitalfoto-trainer.de/SuperRotator...eg_Aperture.jpg

This is like lenses looked in former times when workmanship and quality were out of discussion.

And now again........   from Ukraine !

Greetings from Munich

Stefan

[yaya]

I am getting some rather disturbing pentagonal bokeh with my Hasselblad 500-series Zeiss glass at apertures other than wide open.

Does anyone know how many aperture blades are in the new Hy6 AFD lenses?

For those of you in the know, or who have recently handled some of these lenses in Israel, did you happen to note the number or shape of (straight vs. rounded) the aperture blades?

I'm also curious about Rollei 6008 (AF and manual glass), as, at least for the time being, the AFD glass lineup comes up short in the tele department.

Thanks,
Brad
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129695\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Brad I will have an 80mm AFD lens in my hands on Thursday so I'll let you know

Yair

[bradleygibson]

That's great, thanks, Yair!

Stefan, I think I'm already seeing what you're talking about--Here are a few unretouched test image samples from my 5-straight-bladed aperture classic Hassy Zeiss lenses.  (The following samples are JPEGs saved from PS at 10/12 quality; note that the "crunchy" backgrounds (most easily visible in example #3) are not JPEG compression artifacts, they're the way the lens renders with its 5-bladed aperture...)

Full view #1/100% crop:
[attachment=2876:attachment] [attachment=2877:attachment]

Full view #2/100% crop:
[attachment=2878:attachment] [attachment=2879:attachment]

Full view #3/100% crop:
[attachment=2880:attachment] [attachment=2881:attachment]

Full view #4/100% crop:
[attachment=2882:attachment] [attachment=2883:attachment]

For me, these renderings are pretty disappointing--I'll be kind and say that to my eye, this bokeh is at best, "unflattering"...

Let's hope the Schneider/Rollei/Jenoptik/Sinar/Leaf effort is a cut (or three) above this.

Thanks guys,
Brad

[E_Edwards]

Well, even the expensive Rollei digital shutters used to house Schneiders and Rodenstocks are built with a mere 5 aperture blades. I was shooting a scene yesterday that required blurry specular highlights, what did I get? Horrible pentagonal shapes, Yuk!

I have a collection of very old lenses from the days when quality was quality, and they have countless blades, the mechanical shutters still work beautifully, it's a dellight to just listen to the clockwork shutter mechanism. Unfortunatelly coating technology wasn't as advanced then, but everything else was a work of art.

Edward

[bradleygibson]

Well, even the expensive Rollei digital shutters used to house Schneiders and Rodenstocks are built with a mere 5 aperture blades. I was shooting a scene yesterday that required blurry specular highlights, what did I get? Horrible pentagonal shapes, Yuk!

I have a collection of very old lenses from the days when quality was quality, and they have countless blades, the mechanical shutters still work beautifully, it's a dellight to just listen to the clockwork shutter mechanism. Unfortunatelly coating technology wasn't as advanced then, but everything else was a work of art.

Edward
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129880\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Edward, although I'm sad to hear that news.

Even the soft background without specular highlights (see image sample #3 above) is rough, harsh and generally unsettling.

I'm really shocked to see lenses of such caliber (and cost!) using only 5 straight aperture blades.  The least they could do would be to round them so that the aperture remains circular.

Fingers crossed that someone took care of this with the new AFD's...

Best regards,
Brad

[Khun_K]

Thanks Edward, although I'm sad to hear that news.

Even the soft background without specular highlights (see image sample #3 above) is rough, harsh and generally unsettling.

I'm really shocked to see lenses of such caliber (and cost!) using only 5 straight aperture blades.  The least they could do would be to round them so that the aperture remains circular.

Fingers crossed that someone took care of this with the new AFD's...

Best regards,
Brad
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129935\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not that bad if considering H system lens has only 4 blades. Zeiss for Contax 645 on the other hand has 7 blades.

[bradleygibson]

Not that bad if considering H system lens has only 4 blades. Zeiss for Contax 645 on the other hand has 7 blades.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I dunno...   I think the bokeh being produced here is pretty bad, but of course that's subjective...

These photos were taken with a Hassy V system, not H; but when I was researching digital backs, I evaluated the H system, and the H lenses I tested were also 5-bladed pentagonal apertures.

-Brad

[jose_usoz]

Not that bad if considering H system lens has only 4 blades. Zeiss for Contax 645 on the other hand has 7 blades.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hello, this is my first post... I count 8 aperture blades, at least in the 50mm, 100mm, 120mm, and 210mm Hassel system H.

saludos,
jose.

[Wim van Velzen]

There is more to say about Bokeh, than just the aperture blade count.
The Zeiss 150 4.0 for my Rollei is not particularly good, sometimes even quite bad (see this picture as an example).

On the other hand, my Zeiss 120 4.0 macro has also 5 aperture blades, but the Bokeh is IMO better. (see e.g this one:)



(Of course some web jpgs don't show a lot, but just to give you an idea what I am talking about).
In general I feel that the Schneider lenses I have, a 80 2.8, 90 4.0 and 180 2.8 have better Bokeh than the  Zeiss 40, 50, 150 and 250 - but I never really made shots for the purpose.

[Khun_K]

Hello, this is my first post... I count 8 aperture blades, at least in the 50mm, 100mm, 120mm, and 210mm Hassel system H.

saludos,
jose.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=130006\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, you are right. I count it and it is 8 on all my H lenses, I must wonder myself where I got such an idea. Thanks.  I also count again the Contax lenses and it is 7 blades.

[bradleygibson]

Hello, this is my first post... I count 8 aperture blades, at least in the 50mm, 100mm, 120mm, and 210mm Hassel system H.

saludos,
jose.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=130006\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi, Jose,

Whoops, yes you are right.  I looked at my notes (and sample files) and sure enough, H-series lenses have 8 blades.  They still give a pretty obvious octagon rather than something approaching a true disc though, for out of focus areas.  But no doubt--8 blades are better than 5 where bokeh is concerned.

Hi, Wim,

Is the sample shot from your Zeiss 120/4 done wide open?  At least on the Zeiss lenses I have, the aperture is truly circular when shot wide open.  It only becomes polygonal when the lens is stopped down.

-Brad

[Wim van Velzen]

I am not sure, but I almost never shoot wide open in the rush of a wedding. I suppose this is at 5.6 - 8.

[Graham Mitchell]

This thread is a bit odd to me. All that matters is the end result, so let's wait for some real samples.

[StuartR]

I am not sure about the new lenses, but I use a Rollei 6008AF and have several lenses, all by Schneider. They all have 5 blades, but the blades are quite rounded. They only get sharply pentagonal above f/5.6 or f/8. In general, I have found the Schneider lenses have very nice bokeh. I have also used the Hasselblad 200 series and the F lenses are much better than the V series lenses in this respect. The 110/2 planar has 10 blades, as does the 50mm f/2.8 distagon. Other than when it shows up as pentagons, I am not sure how much the number of blades has to do with the bokeh. I am a bit baffled about why they don't just use more blades though, if only to avoid pentagonal shapes in highlights.

[bradleygibson]

I am not sure about the new lenses, but I use a Rollei 6008AF and have several lenses, all by Schneider. They all have 5 blades, but the blades are quite rounded. They only get sharply pentagonal above f/5.6 or f/8.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=130209\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you, Stuart--That is a big relief!     It's also good to know about the Hassy CF lenses.  I'm baffled too as to why they use so few blades with such high-quality lenses, but as long as I'm not getting the kind of attention-grabbing highlights and "rough" background blurs I posted above, I'm satisfied with 5 rounded blades...

That also explains why Wim is seeing such nice results with his Schneiders.

Thanks, guys,
Brad

[yaya]

Brad I will have an 80mm AFD lens in my hands on Thursday so I'll let you know

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129723\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

5 blades in the new 80mm, but what I've seen so far is quite circular.

I'll try to find some samples to post

I believe that one of the reasons for a lower count is reliability, especially with the 1/2000th shutter speed that it allows and the 8 fps rate.

Yair

[AndreNapier]

5 blades in the new 80mm, but what I've seen so far is quite circular.

I'll try to find some samples to post

I believe that one of the reasons for a lower count is reliability, especially with the 1/2000th shutter speed that it allows and the 8 fps rate.

Yair
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Since you are one of the very few right now with access to this camera and lens could you please share some light on the auto focus performance. My experience with the 6008AF was horrible. The 80mm was very squicky noisy and searching forever for focus. Full body shots were never sharp. I had the P20 combo. Replace it twice, sent it for adjustment to Rollei 3 times and finnaly gave it up. As much as I like Rollei I have to say it AF was far inferior to HassyH. Any improvements???

[a href=\"http://andrenapier.com]http://andrenapier.com[/url]

[yaya]

Since you are one of the very few right now with access to this camera and lens could you please share some light on the auto focus performance. My experience with the 6008AF was horrible. The 80mm was very squicky noisy and searching forever for focus. Full body shots were never sharp. I had the P20 combo. Replace it twice, sent it for adjustment to Rollei 3 times and finnaly gave it up. As much as I like Rollei I have to say it AF was far inferior to HassyH. Any improvements???

http://andrenapier.com
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

From the little I can tell with this early prototype, AF is faster, quieter and more decisive than my AFDII, H2 or Contax.

It is not Canon, but then Canon is not an AFi either  

Bokeh wise, here are two samples at f8 and f4.8 with the 80mm:

[a href=\"http://www.imagehut.eu/v.php?id=54770Bokeh_f8.jpg][/url]

[bradleygibson]

From the little I can tell with this early prototype, AF is faster, quieter and more decisive than my AFDII, H2 or Contax.

It is not Canon, but then Canon is not an AFi either  
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=130333\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is great to hear; and thanks for the samples, Yair!

Much appreciated,
Brad