What lighting are you reviewing prints with?

[Kyle Jackson]

Hey all, what lighting are you using in your workspaces for reviewing your prints and comparing to soft-proofs? The specific bulbs/products I mean, particularly any LED bulbs that are "good enough" for basic print review. I'm interested people's experiences with them.

I've seen some mentioned over in the Colour Management forum (NorthLux / Waveform Lighting for one).

Thanks!

[Czornyj]

I'm using bulbs with SunLike Vrgb emitters

https://tinyurl.com/3bz7852x

[dgberg]

Several years ago we replaced all our drop ceiling lights with K5000 flat panel LED's.
Probably not ideal but they do work and certainly much better than the fluorescents of old.
We have a Calibrate GrafiLite for smaller print viewing. A nice desktop unit that takes up very little space.

[Kyle Jackson]

I'm using bulbs with SunLike Vrgb emitters

https://tinyurl.com/3bz7852x

How do you like them? How's the flicker?

Found some test results that pointed me to these Yuji NormLite bulbs:
https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/arts-graphics-lighting/products/normlite-cri-98-d50-5000k-standard-illuminant-led-bulb-iso3664-2000-for-art-studio
The spectrum is less spikey than the NorthLux / Waveform, and appears very similar to those SunLikes (might be the same emitter). Not cheap tho.

[Kyle Jackson]

We have a Calibrate GrafiLite for smaller print viewing. A nice desktop unit that takes up very little space.

I forgot about these lamps, I remember seeing them mentioned here in the past. I'm looking at a larger space tho. It's both my photo printing space and my art creation space (plus print repro of the latter). For now I just have the usual "2 lamps at 45-degrees setup" and just looking for better bulbs. Later I might add something overhead if needed.

[Czornyj]

How do you like them? How's the flicker?

Found some test results that pointed me to these Yuji NormLite bulbs:
https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/arts-graphics-lighting/products/normlite-cri-98-d50-5000k-standard-illuminant-led-bulb-iso3664-2000-for-art-studio
The spectrum is less spikey than the NorthLux / Waveform, and appears very similar to those SunLikes (might be the same emitter). Not cheap tho.

Vrgb LED emitters (SunLike Toshiba TRI-R technology) are as good as it gets. The one from link are also cheap, and I couldn't detect any measurable flickering using JETI Specbos and 240Hz camera. Yuji are certainly good too (also Vrgb). GrafiLite are just Bgr LED like most video lamps, so they're noticeably worse than Vrgb - spikes in Bgr spectra makes it visually warmer than CCT indicates, and less neutral for B&W prints (usually greenish)

[pflower]

Well at the end of the day it is a a question about where and to whom you are going to show your prints.  I tend to print mostly at night and thus look at the finished print under my normal LED domestic lights. Looks good? Ok. Then tomorrow I will at it under bright sunlight.  Still looks good then OK.  But doesn't look good then what to do?  Re-edit or what?

Then you have an exhibition in a gallery over which you have no control over what the colour temperature of the illumination is or probably in which direction it is going.  So your prints that looked great in your studio now don't. What to do?

Probably of all the colour photographers I can think of William Eggleston was or is the most fastidious printer.  His Red Ceiling photograph is one that he advocates as the best dye transfer he has ever seen and stated that he has never seen it reproduced satisfactorily.  I have seen an original which presumably was passed by him in 3 different environments.  Now I can't remember what the lighting was or what the difference was but I do remember seeing one print and thinking that it wasn't quite how I remembered it from the last time I saw it.

So at the end of the unless you can completely control the environment that your prints will be seen then I suggest you just gauge your prints as you like them.  If you spend a lot of time and money on expensive viewing booths and get things to our satisfaction then there is no guarantee that the next person who sees your print will see anything like you saw under you viewing booth.

[Ryan Mack]

I've been replacing most of my bulbs with PHILIPS LED 100W A19 4-Pack Ultra Definition Daylight (5000K) (Amazon product B0CX7K42CQ). They're surprisingly good and look completely like traditional frosted glass bulbs. They dim well and I've been been able to use them as the modeling light in my Elinchrom strobes (they dim but not as exact same ratio as the strobe). waveformlighting.com has more expensive "calibrated" bulbs that work well but don't look like traditional bulbs and don't dim. I still have a stock of Solux halogen lamps I bought when they went of of business. Have a few on a track in the room with my printer if I want to be really picky. I bought them for $7 and now they're selling for $40 on ebay :-P

[Kyle Jackson]

I found this interesting test database:
https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database

It's easy to sort by colour temp and then can quickly spot good candidates based on flicker risk, desirable spectrum, and spikiness (ASD).

In the 5000K range the Yuji NormLite seems to have the lead. SunLike isn't listed specifically, altho you can see a number of similar vrgb spectrums in the list, including the Yuji. But there seems to be a wide range of flicker across the products. I guess the bulb makers use different LED driver designs. Norb has high flicker.

The NorthLux / Waveform bulbs seems to be rgb only with that big blue spike. More test results on those here: https://budgetlightforum.com/t/review-waveform-lighting-a19-centric-home-daylight-e27-bulbs-2700k-4000k-5000k/55829

Among the Philips Ultra Def options only 1 is flicker-free, the 800-lumen size ~60W replacement (has both frosted and clear versions). But it has curious red spikes giving high ASD. Not sure what LED they're using there, only the Philips bulbs exhibit that. But they're available locally and cheap so I can easily try them out.

[Kyle Jackson]

Well at the end of the day it is a a question about where and to whom you are going to show your prints.  I tend to print mostly at night and thus look at the finished print under my normal LED domestic lights. Looks good? Ok. Then tomorrow I will at it under bright sunlight.  Still looks good then OK.  But doesn't look good then what to do?  Re-edit or what?

Then you have an exhibition in a gallery over which you have no control over what the colour temperature of the illumination is or probably in which direction it is going.  So your prints that looked great in your studio now don't. What to do?

Probably of all the colour photographers I can think of William Eggleston was or is the most fastidious printer.  His Red Ceiling photograph is one that he advocates as the best dye transfer he has ever seen and stated that he has never seen it reproduced satisfactorily.  I have seen an original which presumably was passed by him in 3 different environments.  Now I can't remember what the lighting was or what the difference was but I do remember seeing one print and thinking that it wasn't quite how I remembered it from the last time I saw it.

So at the end of the unless you can completely control the environment that your prints will be seen then I suggest you just gauge your prints as you like them.  If you spend a lot of time and money on expensive viewing booths and get things to our satisfaction then there is no guarantee that the next person who sees your print will see anything like you saw under you viewing booth.

Right, so you kinda went way out in left field there... I understand what you're getting at but it's not really applicable for me and the topic here. And tbh it gives a "why bother doing anything" vibe which I don't support in this case (and I think I'm not alone there). If soft-proofing or lighting for artist workspaces isn't your thing, that's cool, we all have preferences.

I like to use natural daylight too but don't always have that luxury in my location. Predictable lighting makes it easier for me to evaluate my prints consistently or spot if one of my colour channels is acting up again, and similarly for selecting and blending colours in my artist workspace. I mean it's a pretty common thing to do. So you suggested "gauging stuff as I like", and this would be it.

So back to bulbs lol... 

[Kyle Jackson]

Vrgb LED emitters (SunLike Toshiba TRI-R technology) are as good as it gets. The one from link are also cheap, and I couldn't detect any measurable flickering using JETI Specbos and 240Hz camera. Yuji are certainly good too (also Vrgb). GrafiLite are just Bgr LED like most video lamps, so they're noticeably worse than Vrgb - spikes in Bgr spectra makes it visually warmer than CCT indicates, and less neutral for B&W prints (usually greenish)

Hey I just googled the JETI Specbos..., it can make spectral SPD plots for a light? Did you make any for those SunLike bulbs from AliExpress? Would be great to see that.

[Czornyj]

Hey I just googled the JETI Specbos..., it can make spectral SPD plots for a light? Did you make any for those SunLike bulbs from AliExpress? Would be great to see that.

sure thing

[Kyle Jackson]

sure thing

Thank you!! And you included my old friend TLCI too, that's awesome! 

These are really helpful because of course it's difficult to know if a seller is selling the real product, or if a brand has substituted different components than they advertise (Sylvania does that).

Edit: Unfortunately that AliExpress link can only buy 1 bulb (says max 1 per shopper) 

[Czornyj]

Thank you!! And you included my old friend TLCI too, that's awesome! 

These are really helpful because of course it's difficult to know if a seller is selling the real product, or if a brand has substituted different components than they advertise (Sylvania does that).

Edit: Unfortunately that AliExpress link can only buy 1 bulb (says max 1 per shopper) 

Apparently they changed it for some reason, Last time I had ordered 9pcs without a problem...

[Kyle Jackson]

Apparently they changed it for some reason, Last time I had ordered 9pcs without a problem...

Maybe they ran out. When I add to cart it shows "only 1 left". I'll check again later...

I'm trying out the Philips Ultra Definition 800 lumen (~"60W" size) now since they were available at a local store. It's the frosted "daylight" 5000K one.

[William Walker]

I have always followed John Paul Caponigro’s advice:

"Next, consider the color temperature of light – measured in Kelvin degrees. While 5000K is the industry standard (most viewing boxes and printer profiles are built for the 5000 K standard), in real world situations very few people view printed color under 5000K light. More typically, prints are viewed in galleries and museums in some form of halogen (3300K – 3800K) or in homes under tungsten (2800K) with a mix of daylight which varies with time of day, weather, and season. Viewing light for the end user is often highly variable. So, what do you do? Make prints for a specific lighting condition if practical. Otherwise, standardize on a viewing light temperature that can be least adversely affected in as many real world situations as possible. More people prefer the taste of 3600K than any other light temperature.”

https://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/blog/6941/controlling-your-environment/

[Czornyj]

I have always followed John Paul Caponigro’s advice:

"Next, consider the color temperature of light – measured in Kelvin degrees. While 5000K is the industry standard (most viewing boxes and printer profiles are built for the 5000 K standard), in real world situations very few people view printed color under 5000K light. More typically, prints are viewed in galleries and museums in some form of halogen (3300K – 3800K) or in homes under tungsten (2800K) with a mix of daylight which varies with time of day, weather, and season. Viewing light for the end user is often highly variable. So, what do you do? Make prints for a specific lighting condition if practical. Otherwise, standardize on a viewing light temperature that can be least adversely affected in as many real world situations as possible. More people prefer the taste of 3600K than any other light temperature.”

https://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/blog/6941/controlling-your-environment/

And here's my advice:
1) The approx. CCT of daylight at homes is 5000K, and ICC profiles are calculated using D50 standard illuminant.
2) A print under 5000K daylight (or Vrgb light) gives a reasonably good match with D65 calibrated monitor, as narrow-band lights (LCD/OLED) tend to look warmer than same CCT wide-band spectra lights (daylight/Vrgb)
3) Prints viewed in museums and at homes in the evenings under artificial lightning are usually exposed in dim conditions, when the perception of CCT changes in accordance to Kruithof curve - due to the fact that as illuminance decreases, human sensitivity to blue light increases (Purkinje effect). That's why "people prefer the taste of 3600K blah, blah, blah"
4) Tu sum it up - a print under 5000K gives a reasonably good match with a D65 display/smartphone/tablet/tv, print under daylight, and print under dim, warm, artificial light, so it statistically matches (more or less) the most likely viewing conditions.
5) All above mentioned doesn't really matter that much, as our chromatic adaptation will (more or less) neutralize the influence of CCT in ~30 seconds - a 5000K wide-band light is only convenient when we do a direct screen to print comparison, plus it distorts colors of the print the least

[NeilPrintArt]

My set up, pictured below....

6x 32w D50 'Graphiclite' fluorescent tubes from GTI, diffused through a quarter-stop lighting diffusion screen
Works pretty well for me, there is definitely some light fall-off towards the edge of the viewing area, but not bad overall for a relatively inexpensive home-made system
\

[Kyle Jackson]

2) A print under 5000K daylight (or Vrgb light) gives a reasonably good match with D65 calibrated monitor, as narrow-band lights (LCD/OLED) tend to look warmer than same CCT wide-band spectra lights (daylight/Vrgb)
...
4) Tu sum it up - a print under 5000K gives a reasonably good match with a D65 display/smartphone/tablet/tv, print under daylight, and print under dim, warm, artificial light, so it statistically matches (more or less) the most likely viewing conditions.

This is the advice I follow too. Soft-proof will never be perfect but at least this way it's practical and consistent.

The Philips bulbs I bought yesterday are already an improvement over the spikey blue LEDs I had before. Skin tones aren't as messed up and soft-proof is easier (so it's more like when I use natural daylight). They're also easier on my eyes, but whether that is the reduced blue spike or a lower intensity, I don't know.

Their spectrum (attached) obviously isn't as good as Vrgb but this is a big improvement until I'm able to try some of those (and very affordable too!). (Screenshot nicked from: https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database)

[Kyle Jackson]

My set up, pictured below....

6x 32w D50 'Graphiclite' fluorescent tubes from GTI, diffused through a quarter-stop lighting diffusion screen
Works pretty well for me, there is definitely some light fall-off towards the edge of the viewing area, but not bad overall for a relatively inexpensive home-made system
\

That room is bigger than my home haha!  I used to have space like this but now it's just 2 desklamps on a table lol

Ok to be fair I could do something similar on smaller scale, but for now it's lamps and bulbs. If I stay in this location long enough I might put some overhead strip lighting units up later. Sort of like the Northlux / Waveform 2- and 4-foot light strips (but not necessarily that product).