Another 86:01 error code

[sharadn]

I posted previously about buying a printer in Zurich. I did buy an HPZ3200 44" and replaced the belt. I am now getting the 86:01 paper jam code on startup and it never completes the initialization process. It is always stuck at this 86:01 error code. I have ran the scan axis calibration a number of times and it seems that the carriage cannot find the middle of the printer. It moves but goes past the middle and then back again the other way past the middle. I am getting an 87:11 error; Fail scan axis length: 1032169. To short. Check path is free. Need mechanical repair. I have also gotten 42:10 error, Fail high friction. I have cleaned the encoder strip and the carriage rail and have also oiled the carriage rail the rear carriage bushing and oiler. When I move the carriage by hand it seems to run quite free except close to the left side when the stiff plastic backing on the trailing cable folds back to accommodate the carriage position. When I use the up and down arrows to move the carriage during the scan axis test it moves properly and then I get a message that says the the encoder is OK. I have inspected the encode strip and it looks OK to me but it seems like it might be the problem. Also the high friction may indicate a different problem. I don't want to just start replacing parts and would like to diagnose the problem properly so I replace the correct part. I would greatly appreciate any help, input or suggested testing paths to identify the problem part. Also suggestions as to where to buy parts for the printer here in Switzerland or German. TIA Art

[Kyle D Jackson]

I posted previously about buying a printer in Zurich. I did buy an HPZ3200 44" and replaced the belt. I am now getting the 86:01 paper jam code on startup and it never completes the initialization process. It is always stuck at this 86:01 error code. I have ran the scan axis calibration a number of times and it seems that the carriage cannot find the middle of the printer. It moves but goes past the middle and then back again the other way past the middle. I am getting an 87:11 error; Fail scan axis length: 1032169. To short. Check path is free. Need mechanical repair. I have also gotten 42:10 error, Fail high friction. I have cleaned the encoder strip and the carriage rail and have also oiled the carriage rail the rear carriage bushing and oiler. When I move the carriage by hand it seems to run quite free except close to the left side when the stiff plastic backing on the trailing cable folds back to accommodate the carriage position. When I use the up and down arrows to move the carriage during the scan axis test it moves properly and then I get a message that says the the encoder is OK. I have inspected the encode strip and it looks OK to me but it seems like it might be the problem. Also the high friction may indicate a different problem. I don't want to just start replacing parts and would like to diagnose the problem properly so I replace the correct part. I would greatly appreciate any help, input or suggested testing paths to identify the problem part. Also suggestions as to where to buy parts for the printer here in Switzerland or German. TIA Art

Hi, I replied to your other thread before seeing this one: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=144538.msg1265483#msg1265483 The Service Manual is your friend here so be sure to walk thru that.

As mentioned I suspect something got re-assembled incorrectly after the belt replacement. The 42:10 high friction error definitely seems to indicate that. Re-check your belt installation carefully from start to end.

An issue I had on my Z3100 was that the tension roller had a spring pop out of place and it was rubbing on the belt (installed by an HP-auth tech too). It caused high drag on the belt and eventually shredded it. I found the problem when installing a new belt. That's just one possibility.

[sharadn]

Kyle,
Thanks for replying to my other post. I thought it was good to start another thread for this issue specifically. Can you please respond here going forward. I will review the belt installation and hopefully find something wrong. I have cleaned the encoder strip and I wonder why the carriage cannot find the middle of the printer during the scan axis calibration. I have not tested the carriage assembly but it seems that the encoder reader is working when doing the left and right movements and the LED is coming on when the carriage starts. So I have a tendency to think that the carriage is OK.
The problem with this printer is that I don't know how well it was working before the belt shred and what was done to it. I wonder if I should do a firmware upgrade. As I mentioned over in the DPR post that the encoder strip seems OK except at the far left where it shows a bit of haze. I took some photos of this but they don't show it very well. I did already replace the belt on my HPZ in the US so this is not a new procedure for me. I also watched the LPS video of the 86:01 error code and went through all the steps. I wonder if the bearing in the tensioner is bad. I also wonder if the problem is with the encoder strip. I would like to say how much I appreciate you and Ernst's input. Knowledgeable resources for the HPZ3200 are becoming harder and harder to find. So a big thank you while I try to bring this baby back to life!

[Kyle D Jackson]

I wouldn't expect the firmware to have any bearing on this, usually it's related to software driver features. Sometimes it can't be rolled back so I'd be cautious of updating it before you're certain you need it.

The encoder strip is fairly simple, tho it does have considerable tension to reinstall. It should be taut and not impeded the carriage movement in any way.

If the issue is the belt is installed incorrectly, then I think the service menu tests are unlikely to be helpful. You'll need to check the belt installation end-to-end.

There's really only 3 contact points for the belt: the back of the carriage, the belt drive motor wheel (right side), and the belt tensioner (left side). The belt must be installed on the back of the carriage in the correct direction because the drive wheel and tensioner wheel have different groove/teeth direction. A visual guide for the correct direction is stamped onto the back of the carriage (pic 1).

The springs on the tensioner can pop out of position and jam the belt, so check that carefully too (pic 2).

The bottom of the carriage has 2 round bushings that ride on the bottom rail. Make sure they're clean and the rail is clean and lubricated.

The top of the carriage has an easy-to-break plastic bushing. Make sure it's not broken and it's installed correctly, plus oiled. Also I recall the LPS procedure temporarily bends a sheet metal tab near that bushing and its oiler for access. I don't recall if it would be in the way but I bent mine back to original angle when finished.

The carriage should slide end to end fairly easily.

[kers]

it would be interesting to see how much the Z is used in the past: there are statistics inside somewhere.
The friction could mean the mean transport roll is not doing well. Never have repaired that one.
Some of these machines are used heavely ; in print centers for instance - others hardly; So that can make a difference.

[sharadn]

I have double checked all the belt replacement steps as per Bob Werts video and your steps above. The round bushings on the bottom and the rear carriage bushing are all OK. The belt is attached properly to the carriage. The rail is lubricated and so is the oiler for the rear carriage bushing. I took the tensioner apart and it seems that there is slop in the bearing. I can move the wheel parallel to the shaft and it also had some diagonal movement. It spins freely though. I am not sure if this is OK or indicates problem. I also checked the scan axis motor and there is no play in it and the shaft rotates OK but it does not spin freely like the tensioner wheel. It might be a little stiff but I am not experienced enough to assess accurately. As far as I can see there are three main components that would cause this test to fail, the motor, the tensioner and the encoder strip. I am not a big fan of spending money unnecessarily but could replace all of them. I am under some time pressure to get this sorted out due to my travel plans. Please let me know what you think in general and also about the tensioner wheel.

[sharadn]

I watched the carriage on startup and it goes all the way to the left and then back to the service station where it bumps a few times. It seems that the 86:01 is occurring at the service station. When the carriage returns to the service station it sits there and bounces for a awhile before the error code comes us. I think that this is the issue. It does not seem that the carriage is being locked when it returns to the right. The belt is fine, it is new from LPS and I have double checked all the installation steps and I cannot find an error. I cleaned all the gunk out of the teeth on the scan axis motor also. I spoke with LPS and they suggested that I drop the service station and keep the electronic connections intact. I wonder if I need to just drop the service station and clean it out?
The main take away is that the carriage is not being capped when returning to the right. It just sits there and seems to bump for a while and then I get the code. I understand that it should park the carriage at the right side and after initializing. Oddly enough the carriage capping screw on my machine is not a T10. It is an allen (extended). I could tell from looking in there and I do not have the label for T10 next to the hole.

[Kyle D Jackson]

Yes the usage statistics would be very interesting to see, but if the machine isn't fully booting then I think there wouldn't be any way to access it.

So the carriage doesn't move fully to the right side of the of the printer at all, even when moving it manually? It sounds like it's hitting something.

The LPS video at 36:00 shows carriage hitting something when Bob is reassembling it. I think the capping station was out of position after he showed how the T10 screw in the back moves it. I recall I had similar because I moved the capping station several times to clean it well before putting it back together. For the carriage to go fully to the right the capping station must be retracted out of sight and only the messy hinged flat plate is visible (dunno what it's called). I thought when the printer is first powered on it automatically resets the capping station to the correct position (necessary for recovery from a power failure, etc). But if not then maybe you need to manually wind the capping station into the correct position to allow the carriage to go fully to the right.

Also as a long shot make sure the trailing ribbon cable isn't binding up somewhere, and also that the ink tube assembly is fully seated on the top of the carriage after it was reassembled to make sure it isn't sticking up somewhere and hitting something.

I think when I looked at mine the capping station screw looked hex-ish too, like a lazy Torx head on it.

It's been a while since I did my Z3100. The Z3200 belt is due and I've had it here for over a year but because life issues I don't know when I'll get into it. I want to replace its PSU fan when I take it apart because it's ridiculously loud compared to the Z3100. The Z3200 fan never drops to low speed when the printer is sleeping/idle. I might add a fan controller to it so it does that.

[sharadn]

Carriage moves all the way to the right on initialization but when it gets there it sits and bounces for awhile and then it throws the 86:01 code. It does not cap when moving to the right on startup. When I do the service station test it all works OK and the carriage gets parked. It seems that the printer does not know that the carriage is all the way to the right and keeps trying to drive further to the right and then it senses a paper. I guess what I need to know is how does the printer know the position of the carriage at the right side? Does it use the encoder strip? The encoder strip looks to be OK on that end and the carriage reads it when testing the movement to left and right, but maybe there is something funky with the strip at the right end. What I find puzzling is that it all works OK during the service station test but not on boot up. If I knew that the printer uses the encoder strip to know when to cap it would be helpful.

[Kyle D Jackson]

Yes my understanding is it uses the encoder strip to know the position of the carriage. The encoder sensor on the carriage looks for the little lines on the strip and it counts them like a measuring tape.

I think one of the service tests shows the encoder strip position number with the carriage in different positions, to verify that the encoder is reading correctly and that the carriage is reaching the full travel.

So if the carriage and service station are both moving freely with no collisions, then it does sound like your suspicion that it maybe doesn't know where the carriage is (or it's not reaching the expected encoder number range).

I recall the encoder strip was a real bugger to reinstall at the right side, there is a lot of tension on it. I recall it actually launched the little metal retaining bracket when I unscrewed it and it sprang loose. I had to figure out the correct way to put it back together. Maybe check that to make sure the strip is fully tensioned. Here's pics of both ends of mine (on a 24" Z3100).

You could also check that the encoder sensor on the bottom of the carriage is clear/clean.

Maybe also check the capping station moves freely thru its entire range (but it sounds like you're saying that's working ok).

[sharadn]

Yes the encoder strip is a real bear to install. I still don't know a good way to do it

[sharadn]

I pulled the encoder strip and inspected it. I found a good sized scratch on it towards the right side. I guess that this could be the problem. I did not see it while it was in the printer. I don't think it makes sense for me to go further unless I know that the encoder strip is good. Now I need to source one here in Europe.

[Kyle D Jackson]

Ugh that sucks  Was hoping it was just something simple with the belt so it would be an easy fix.

The scratch is in the service area? So maybe it's messing up the carriage knowing where the "start" position is. I guess that would explain the scan axis fail 87:11 you got earlier.

If you're looking to replace the encoder strip anyway and have nothing to lose, then you might try to polish the scratch out. Many years ago when I used to build fine scale models I would use wet-dry sandpapers with very fine grit number to remove scratches in paint, and then use toothpaste as a polishing compound. It works very well.

You could start with the toothpaste, I suggest rubbing it back and forth along that part of strip with your finger, to see if it removes or reduces the scratch. If it doesn't seem to be having any effect, you could go to say 4000 grit wet sandpaper and try gently rubbing with that, or a lower number if needed. Once you get the scratch reduced then work way back up the sandpaper number scale and finally finish off polishing with the toothpaste.

Even if you buy a new strip anyway it might preserve a spare for you.

Edit: if you have a Dremel tool you could use that to assist with polishing etc, just be very careful of the speed and grit rating of whatever you use.

[sharadn]

I am at least glad that I found something and I hope it is the problem. At any rate I should know that the encoder strip is good before going further. I am trying to source a new one here in Europe. Not so easy. There are used ones for big bucks from European ebay sellers with bad reputations, ones from China that are inexpensive but of course of questionable quality or I could get one sent from America which is not too expensive but it just takes a long time to get here. My go to source LPS does not have any in stock right now. Once I put in a new one then I may chose to sand down this one but I will see. My time is at a premium but it is certainly an innovative suggestion.This is only the first phase. Next I will have clogged nozzles to work on and god knows what else. At a minimum I getting to know my way around these Z printers pretty well. Always appreciate your help and knowledgeable input!

[Kyle D Jackson]

Tbh I would just buy whatever is most readily available / cheapest regardless of where it came from. I think an encoder strip is an "either it works or it doesn't" part, it's not that complex. In all likelihood China has been the leading producer of them for years. Long shipping times from there to Canada is sometimes the hurdle for me, depending on the supplier, but maybe it's faster to EU.

[sharadn]

Probably something like this is my best bet: https://www.ebay.com/itm/116592565056 US$28 and relatively quick delivery excellent feedback. I was hoping to find a good used one in Europe but no go so far. The above looks like my best option.

[Kyle D Jackson]

Damn they have a lot of good HP parts listed. Maybe grab a spare carriage bushing or a head clean kit while at it. (Not sure if the nozzle cap in the head clean kit is the single side or dual side, I wouldn't get anything other than the single side so you can do one colour at a time.)

[sharadn]

I already have a head clean kit from LPS. Have you had any interactions with LPS lately?

[Kyle D Jackson]

Bought a belt from them last year but then got hit by a car so everything still sitting there until I get back to it sometime this year. I like that they have stuff but the shipper they use is really expensive to Canada, costs more than the items.

[sharadn]

Ouch! Thanks for being so helpful in spite of this event! I hope that you are recovering OK.