Looking for canvas varnish at a better price point.

[dgberg]

Anyone using larger quantities of canvas varnish that they can recommend at a better price point? We have been using the Marabu Clearshield Satin for a number of years and the product has now gone up 40% since our last purchase (Like everything else.) The 5 gallon price of $637.77 from Lexjet does not give enough of a discount to warrant stocking the 5 gal. buckets. I believe the single gallons are $134.00@ That comes to just over a $1.00 an ounce and the bigger canvases with two sprayed coats use about 6 ounces. We have gone back to coating our solvent canvases after being told it was not necessary, so of course we are using a lot more. Solvent ink prints are a whole lot tougher than pigment but when packaged with corner protecters the ink can abrade off slightly. The sprayed coat prevents that from happening. Breathing Color's Timeless is a good product as well but comes in pretty much at the same price point.

[Ernst Dinkla]

It must be ten years ago that I did canvasses. At the time I used Lascaux or a product of Tri-Art.ca , the last more affordable then, even in the EU. With the trade wars going on now I doubt you will find an alternatieve that will stay at that price for the next 6 months. Maybe after that period common sense will prevail again.

Ernst, op de lei getypt.

[dgberg]

Thanks Ernst,
Things are already tightening up over here. (Edited to add, trying not to get political.)

[Lessbones]

Thanks Ernst,
Things are already tightening up over here. What a mess and to think over 60% of the population voted for this doofus.

Population of the US: 340,100,000
Trump votes: 77,284,118

by my calculation that's 22.7%.

he did however win 49.8% of the votes cast, which is damning enough.

[dgberg]

yes 60% of the population was not correct..

[mearussi]

This is a little cheaper:
https://www.itsupplies.com/PremierArt-Gloss-ECO-Print-Shield-Gallon-p-3101-GGL

[dgberg]

Thank you. Plan on getting some different brands in to try out. We already charge .03 a sq. in. to cover varnishing, which covers the cost.
It is just the idea that a water based finish is $134.00 a gallon.
When I had my cabinetry business the best conversion varnish on the market was $65 a gallon and the new at the time water based lacquers were $45.
Packaging, marketing and distribution are as costly as the product.

[Klyment]

Dan,

Breathing Color products are distributed by Amplis in Canada and it appears that Adorama is a reseller in the US. Looking on the Adorama website Breathing Color Timeless is $90/gal and Glamour II is $96.25/gal. It appears a Pennsylvania ZIP code will get free shipping. I haven't printed any canvas in the last two years but when I was printing a lot more canvas I was doing my own mix of Glamour II to get a satin-ish finish: 2parts gloss, 1part satin, 3parts distilled water (so 1:1 ratio of water to varnish) and using a Fujispray Q3 Gold. Timeless seems to have a much shorter shelf life than Glamour II so if you were willing to dilute Glamour II yourself you'd end up with a more flexible product with a lot more coverage per dollar.

[dgberg]

Thank you

About 10 years ago we tested a half dozen products. Glamor II was one of them. After several years the Glamor product took on an amber patina, quite yellowish actually so we abandoned it.
Did you have any long term issues? We can certainly cover the price increases from the distributors but we just cannot keep going up and up. I ended up ordering 2 gallons of the Marabu canvas product to the tune of $267.00. So it looks like we will have to add .o1 per sq. in. to cover it.

We may move back to a vinyl over laminate. I have several rolls here of the Drytac Art Shield Air Release Satinex and Mattex hot lam product. It is indestructible stuff, just a little more labor intensive than spraying.
We use our two Knight heat presses 32x42 or 40x60 at 200 degrees F for about 3 minutes. Lay the canvas down. Lay a precut sheet of laminate onto the canvas. Cover with a 1/2" foam pad and press. Product cost is around
.64 a sq. ft. with 10 times the print protection. You cannot damage your print it is protected that well.
Now the downside. The laminate when laid over the canvas cannot have any creases what so ever. They will not press out, they will make a nice big crease which makes the whole thing a throw away. It doesn't happen often but when it does it is a complete do over print and all. Some say it is a little too plasticky looking but the matte and satinex is really a good looking product. At least we have options.

[Kyle Jackson]

We may move back to a vinyl over laminate. I have several rolls here of the Drytac Art Shield Air Release Satinex and Mattex hot lam product. It is indestructible stuff, just a little more labor intensive than spraying.

This is fascinating stuff to learn! I didn't know this kind of process existed! 😮

[Klyment]

After several years the Glamor product took on an amber patina, quite yellowish actually so we abandoned it.
Did you have any long term issues?

To clarify, are you saying that the Glamour II product was turning yellowish while it was a liquid or are you saying that prints varnished with Glamour II has yellowed?

I haven't encountered any discoloration in prints over the 15 or so years I think that I've used the product primarily. That said, I haven't measured prints that have been out in the wild vs my controls. I've been using Breathing Color Lyve primarily and, when there was more demand for canvas amongst my customers I would periodically try other canvases. Most recently (purchased early pandemic) I tried Ilford's Galacia canvas for aqueous inks and failed to note that it wasn't OBA free. I had some test prints that I had partially varnished and the Glamour II varnished portions and left outdoors semi-protected for the element but with almost unhindered sun exposure and the varnished portions appeared slightly whiter than the unvarnished portions but I don't have measurements. I'm in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and we get a lot of blue sky days but we're likely not experiencing the quantity or intensity of sunlight that much of populated North America experiences.

Now that you've mentioned something about yellowness, I think that the liquid Glamour II product has a bit of a warm, creamy tone to it when I look at it in its fully concentrated form. However, I create my colour profiles after varnishing and I create profiles for substrates when I reorder them so there's semi-regular calibration and Breathing Color Lyve prints made in the late 2000's with Glamour II varnish of an image still look like prints of the same image on the same canvas freshly made in 2019ish.

We may move back to a vinyl over laminate. I have several rolls here of the Drytac Art Shield Air Release Satinex and Mattex hot lam product. It is indestructible stuff, just a little more labor intensive than spraying.
We use our two Knight heat presses 32x42 or 40x60 at 200 degrees F for about 3 minutes. Lay the canvas down. Lay a precut sheet of laminate onto the canvas. Cover with a 1/2" foam pad and press. Product cost is around
.64 a sq. ft. with 10 times the print protection. You cannot damage your print it is protected that well.
Now the downside. The laminate when laid over the canvas cannot have any creases what so ever. They will not press out, they will make a nice big crease which makes the whole thing a throw away. It doesn't happen often but when it does it is a complete do over print and all. Some say it is a little too plasticky looking but the matte and satinex is really a good looking product. At least we have options.

I agree that there's a huge increase in durability when using over laminate film compared to using the most durable liquid laminates that I've encountered. And while I appreciate mechanical durability I don't like the plasticky look of the over laminate films that I have seen. Relatively few of my canvas prints have been damaged and all damage has been reported by artists who are doing more art walk and consumer art fair type stuff where they are loading and unloading their artworks regularly and not packaging them properly for moving. I think that the liquid laminated prints show better when dealing with uncontrolled display lighting situations and the artists and I have made arrangements to do a combination of reprinting if a particular painting reproduction sells or the artists have often been able to do touch ups as the damage is usually still relatively minor and along the edges and they would be familiar with their colour formulations to make the touch ups. I don't think "bulletproofing" and failsafe'ing everything is the best solution. =)

[langier]

I've been using the Clearshield for about 15 years. I used to apply it with a manual roller/tray set-up but that's when I was doing several hundred finished pieces. Today, I simply use a paint roller and tray for the few pieces I produce in a batch. The price isn't as critical to me as it was for the larger runs I once did.

Canvas is a premium product I print and I've simply had to increase my print prices through the years as the costs in general have gone higher.

The "liquid laminate" just makes the prints more durable and requires less maintenance in the long run so the added expense is worthwhile in my take. My clients like it since they can now simply wipe the dust with a damp sponge and not worry about taking special precautions.

In November, I produced an exhibit of 42-36x24 prints on canvas that I zip-tied to the fence printed on water-resistant canvas. The plan was to leave the show up for 60 days and then stash them away for reuse later. Well, they are still up. They have been rained upon, hail, frost, baked in the afternoon sun, whipped by wind. A few have suffered minor damage from broken zip ties and the wind flapping them around. Yet, overall, most have survived and look nearly as good as when they were first put up. They will probably stay in the weather and on the fence through most of April.

I did no treatment to the canvas until they had been up for a week and the weather was good so I hit them with some hardware store clear spray paint, giving each a couple of coats, and that's it. I figured that would give them all just a little bit more protection from rubbing off the pigment.

Both my client and I are happy with the results. The original plan was to just leave them up for maybe 45 days but now it's more than double.

This treatment of the images for display was little more than to print onto the canvas from my Epson 9900 aqueous printer, punch grommets in the corners, and then zip-tie them to a fence. Fairly inexpensive overall, fast and easy!

The bottom line is that everyone is happy and the mission is accomplished!

[dgberg]

To clarify, are you saying that the Glamour II product was turning yellowish while it was a liquid or are you saying that prints varnished with Glamour II has yellowed?

I haven't encountered any discoloration in prints over the 15 or so years I think that I've used the product primarily. That said, I haven't measured prints that have been out in the wild vs my controls. I've been using Breathing Color Lyve primarily and, when there was more demand for canvas amongst my customers I would periodically try other canvases. Most recently (purchased early pandemic) I tried Ilford's Galacia canvas for aqueous inks and failed to note that it wasn't OBA free. I had some test prints that I had partially varnished and the Glamour II varnished portions and left outdoors semi-protected for the element but with almost unhindered sun exposure and the varnished portions appeared slightly whiter than the unvarnished portions but I don't have measurements. I'm in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and we get a lot of blue sky days but we're likely not experiencing the quantity or intensity of sunlight that much of populated North America experiences.

Now that you've mentioned something about yellowness, I think that the liquid Glamour II product has a bit of a warm, creamy tone to it when I look at it in its fully concentrated form. However, I create my colour profiles after varnishing and I create profiles for substrates when I reorder them so there's semi-regular calibration and Breathing Color Lyve prints made in the late 2000's with Glamour II varnish of an image still look like prints of the same image on the same canvas freshly made in 2019ish.

I agree that there's a huge increase in durability when using over laminate film compared to using the most durable liquid laminates that I've encountered. And while I appreciate mechanical durability I don't like the plasticky look of the over laminate films that I have seen. Relatively few of my canvas prints have been damaged and all damage has been reported by artists who are doing more art walk and consumer art fair type stuff where they are loading and unloading their artworks regularly and not packaging them properly for moving. I think that the liquid laminated prints show better when dealing with uncontrolled display lighting situations and the artists and I have made arrangements to do a combination of reprinting if a particular painting reproduction sells or the artists have often been able to do touch ups as the damage is usually still relatively minor and along the edges and they would be familiar with their colour formulations to make the touch ups. I don't think "bulletproofing" and failsafe'ing everything is the best solution. =)

They turned amber after a period of time. Not sure how long it was but it was noticeable enough. (To me.)
More than one way to skin a cat and yes the over laminate can get a little plasticky looking to me the glossier the sheen.
Drytac air release Artshield Satinex and Mattex both have a much better finished look than the Seal products.
Have been spraying canvas for 16 years so I have tried just about everything.
Trying to move to printing most of our canvas to solvent but not everyone wants it, which I understand.