Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners  (Read 519 times)

keithcooper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 418
    • Northlight Images
FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« on: February 03, 2025, 12:05:05 pm »

Epson have marked as EOL [end of life - no longer manufactured], their remaining high end CCD based flatbed scanners.

If you want a flatbed scanner for larger format film the V850 and 13000XL are no longer being produced.

I'm told that they will be available whilst stocks last. Stocks for the UK are expected to be gone by the summer, other regions vary, but should all be gone by the end of 2025. Expect some 'show discounts' at TPS in March [it's moved to London this year, which means I'll likely not go]

Stocks in other regions will differ, but best not wait too long if you need something like that...

From a short [4 mins] YT video I produced after talking about this with someone at Epson UK

youtu.be/QqHU5ovQ97A
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21017
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2025, 02:12:04 pm »

No surprise, and we can now add scanners (larger CCD or otherwise) to this group:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jeremyhayes/obsolete-products-that-were-groundbreaking
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Laminarman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 68
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2025, 02:15:42 pm »

So what is someone to do that wants to scan their own 4x5 BW negatives???  I have a V850 but don't want to buy another just to have another. 
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21017
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2025, 02:21:57 pm »

So what is someone to do that wants to scan their own 4x5 BW negatives??? 
Start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjrG-aE-utQ
Or ebay.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Laminarman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 68
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2025, 03:03:08 pm »

Hmmm. My first gut thought is that that isn't going to give a result as good as the V850 scanning would. 
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21017
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2025, 06:38:14 pm »

Hmmm. My first gut thought is that that isn't going to give a result as good as the V850 scanning would.
Depending on the DSLR and setup, you may be very surprised. The V850 isn't anything impressive IMHO, after years of using real drum scanners (ScanView), Leaf 45, Imacon's and the like.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

degrub

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2115
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2025, 09:41:27 pm »

So what is someone to do that wants to scan their own 4x5 BW negatives???  I have a V850 but don't want to buy another just to have another.

Here is one option -
https://photopxl.com/digitizing-negatives-with-a-camera-revisited/
Logged

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4213
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2025, 10:04:31 am »

The vast majority of all film scanning volume* done today is being done on camera-based scanners. Much (most?) of that with our system specifically. Far better detail (SFR resolution), dynamic range (noise/bit-depth), color (deltaE, resistance to spectral metamerism, modern emulsion-agnostic profiling), safety (non-contact holders, low temp, no UV), archive suitability (linear files rather than baked-in adjustments) and speed (hundreds of times faster than using a flatbed).

For example Disney is programmatically digitizing all ~5 million of their photographic slides in a room filled with our "scanners". The life work of Irving Penn, Ansel Adams, Edward Weston, Joel Meyerowitz and dozens more are done with our tech. The vast majority of major US museum, library, and archive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4-Kdq_l25Q

Note that our systems are not necessarily a great replacement for a cheap Epson for a casual hobbyist to scan a few occasional rolls they shoot. But more "consumer" oriented options are out there from a variety of companies and many of them are quite decent for their price.

If you're scanning film on a flatbed, just stop. Switch to camera-based; it was the "future" 15 years ago.

*Hobbyists are the vast majority of people doing film scanning, but volume wise they do hundreds of frames per year... our institutional clients are doing hundreds of thousands of frames per year or more.

Laminarman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 68
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2025, 01:52:15 pm »

I've been looking at all this and now you have my attention.  Thank you for helping me understand that yet, again, I am already outdated : )  On the bright side I can justify buying a better FF camera and macro lens, right? 
Logged

degrub

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2115
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2025, 03:36:06 pm »

As Mark's article points out, a good flat field, macro, apochromat lens should be used.
Probably the most critical part is a rigid mount, stiff support frame, and heavy table to minimize vibrations. Vibration pads help filter out additional disturbances. Any ground or building vibrations will be amplified in the support frame. You may be surprised what impact a car or bus  driving down the road or a person walking through the house can have.

Run through the calculations provided to make sure you get enough pixels for what size you may eventually want to print at. Pick a camera sensor and lens based on that.

Tethering to a computer is a really helpful feature to have.
Logged

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4213
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2025, 07:57:47 pm »

I agree with both of the above.

Basically it takes really good gear and technique to do exceptional camera-based film scanning (eg to outperform a drum scanner) but only decent gear and technique to do reasonably good camera-based film scanning (eg to outperform a flatbed scanner). Heck the latest iPhone does a surprisingly decent job handheld (I’m not joking).

For institutions with hundreds of thousands or millions of pieces of film the cost of our hardware ends up being marginal - the labor cost to retrieve, clean, return and organize the images is the main cost driver and our system is faster and more reliable so ends up saving money.

For a consumer with a few hundred pieces of film our systems would be nonsensical. But buy a cheap copy stand and use a drill or super glue to add a diagonal cross bar for added stability and a decent mirrorless with macro lens and you’ll easily outperform a flatbed.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21017
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2025, 08:42:23 pm »

I agree with both of the above.
Basically it takes really good gear and technique to do exceptional camera-based film scanning (eg to outperform a drum scanner) ...
Now that comparison, I'd like to see that side by side (and a PMT drum scanner please).
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Laminarman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 68
Re: FYI - Epson to end larger ccd flatbed scanners
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2025, 12:06:06 pm »

I've been googling my fingers off, and I do find a fair number of folks saying that a flatbed scanner is faster and better than a do it yourself camera based scanning system.  My intuition tells me that to do a great job you better have your technique down pat and good gear, but my intuition also tells me that most folks just want to keep memories alive.  I am interested however in 4x5" film scans and MF out of my 503C so quality is key. I'll probably just stick with my V850 until it dies as I don't have the time or space now to change systems, especially with the smallish volume I do. I appreciate learning about this technique however.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up