HP Profesional Satin Photo Paper ICC profile for SC-P900

[jacekluc@go2.pl]

I wonder whether anybody can help here.
From my early days in printing, some 15 or more years ago, I have a dozen or so A3+ sheets of HP Profesional Satin Photo Paper.
Now, with my new SC-P900 I would like to make use of them.
Question is what profile and what media settings could I use.

[Kyle D Jackson]

Hi, I can't help you directly with that printer, but I'm familiar with that paper since I printed on it with the HP Z3100 for years. I learned about 1~2 years ago that it's not a very stable paper. It seems to suffer colour shift / fading in a surprisingly short period of time. I've gone thru some of the many prints I made on it (for personal use) and some of the prints are just trash now, even those in the flatfile with no light exposure (but possible exposure to other materials' off-gassing).

There's a site or 2 which had some test results confirming this paper's poor stability / longevity. I'm travelling right now and don't have the links but I think it was a combination of Aardenberg's colour fade tests results and Ersnt Dinkla's Spectrum Viz light measurements that confirmed it's pretty bad.

Anyhow if you just want some nice prints for short-term use ("throw-aways") like a portfolio book or something it's not too bad, and it's certainly a heavy stock for general photos (the curl from a roll is brutallll). But if you want it on a wall with any longevity you might want to skip it.

I think the paper formulation also changed over the years, so maybe earlier versions did much better (that's what I seem to be finding). So if your stock isn't recent, maybe it's still ok.

Cheers

[jacekluc@go2.pl]

Thank you for your comments Kyle.
My experience with this paper is quite good. I have some prints from my long gone B9180 which were hanging many years on the wall without any color change.
Anyway, I will try. 

[sportmaster]

I have been using HP Pro Instant Dry Satin for years.  I like it

[digitaldog]

Question is what profile and what media settings could I use.

You can't use any profile that isn't specifically built for that printer (and media setting), plus that exact paper.
As for a media setting, the paper should have some recommendations on what to use. A similar Satin paper media setting would be a good start, but its a wash without a profile and again, a profile would be created with a specific P900 media setting recommended.

[Kyle D Jackson]

Thank you for your comments Kyle.
My experience with this paper is quite good. I have some prints from my long gone B9180 which were hanging many years on the wall without any color change.
Anyway, I will try. 

I think there was a paper change (at least once) in the years since the B9180 (and Z3100) days. My earlier prints seem to be holding up much better than my later prints, so I think it's a newer paper version.

I could confirm when I'm finished travelling, but it's probably moot here anyway since yours is most likely the earlier version if it's from the B9180 days. (Probably easy to confirm if the HP product # is discontinued.) So I agree it's worth a try.

[Ernst Dinkla]

I wonder whether anybody can help here.
From my early days in printing, some 15 or more years ago, I have a dozen or so A3+ sheets of HP Profesional Satin Photo Paper.
Now, with my new SC-P900 I would like to make use of them.
Question is what profile and what media settings could I use.

With just a dozen A3+s sheets available I would not go for a custom profile. Select an Epson paper quality that comes near in paper white and see where it lands you with a proof print of a known image. The SpectrumViz screen grab that I added shows that the paper white of the Epson is still reflecting more blue (cooler) than the HP does but it comes close over the rest. Yes, there is more that makes a difference between paper coatings like absorption of the inks, the spectral quality of the inks etc but for a dozen A3+'s ? Some custom adjustments on a duplicate image and keep the action for it to copy on other images may be enough.

BTW for HP Vivera pigment printers the HP Premium ID papers showed the least gloss bronzing of an RC papers and I did not observe that much fading over time. Aardenburg Imaging tests were not that bad either on color shifts. Pieter Kers used them as well, he might shine his light on that aspect.

EDit, I should have taken the HP Pro Satin version,  better check that one yourself in SpectrumViz

Added an equivalent paper white for Pro here. Whether Sihl has a profile for that Epson printer I do not know but it was the only measurement I could find that came close.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm 

[Kyle D Jackson]

Ernst I was just about to say that the Premium ID series you mentioned is a different product, but you beat me to it. The "Professional"-labelled product is ~300 gsm paper, and it definitely got poor results in the colour fastness tests (at least whichever generation it was that they tested). I'll try to find the link...

I have this vague memory that the earlier version of it (c.B9180/Z3100 days) was actually an HP-rebranded Hahnemuhle paper, but I don't know if that's accurate. 


Edit: Ok found the link: https://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/light-fade-test-results/
And the test results for HP Professional Satin are shown in the attached screenshot. You can see the numbers vary quite a bit across the Z3100/Z3200 tests (colour and greyscale). The final test (#220) has some very interesting comments from @MHMG about the colour instability in low-light / "dark" storage.
All the tests appear to be from the 2008-2011 period. They don't seem to indicate the actual HP product # / batch date, so it's difficult to know if there was a formulation change in the middle (without trying to infer it from the measurements).

Anyhow probably down a rabbit hole from the OP's question lol, but I just wanted to warn other readers about burning new money on this paper without being aware of the possible performance issues.


Edit 2: Ah! Found the thread here that originally tipped me off to this: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=134009.msg1153143#msg1153143

[Ernst Dinkla]

Ernst I was just about to say that the Premium ID series you mentioned is a different product, but you beat me to it. The "Professional"-labelled product is ~300 gsm paper, and it definitely got poor results in the colour fastness tests (at least whichever generation it was that they tested). I'll try to find the link...

I have this vague memory that the earlier version of it (c.B9180/Z3100 days) was actually an HP-rebranded Hahnemuhle paper, but I don't know if that's accurate. 


Edit: Ok found the link: https://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/light-fade-test-results/
And the test results for HP Professional Satin are shown in the attached screenshot. You can see the numbers vary quite a bit across the Z3100/Z3200 tests (colour and greyscale). The final test (#220) has some very interesting comments from @MHMG about the colour instability in low-light / "dark" storage.
All the tests appear to be from the 2008-2011 period. They don't seem to indicate the actual HP product # / batch date, so it's difficult to know if there was a formulation change in the middle (without trying to infer it from the measurements).

Anyhow probably down a rabbit hole from the OP's question lol, but I just wanted to warn other readers about burning new money on this paper without being aware of the possible performance issues.


Edit 2: Ah! Found the thread here that originally tipped me off to this: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=134009.msg1153143#msg1153143

Too fast in my reply on that request. Anyway you corrected my reply and I added something to the data. Looks more like Sihl produced that HP Pro Satin Photo Paper given the similar coating white point. Substrate thinner though than the HP clone, both in Sihl's gloss and satin variety. I think Sihl shows RIP ICC profiles for it so probably CMYK based, that will not help the OP either.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm 

[jacekluc@go2.pl]

With just a dozen A3+s sheets available I would not go for a custom profile. Select an Epson paper quality that comes near in paper white and see where it lands you with a proof print of a known image. The SpectrumViz screen grab that I added shows that the paper white of the Epson is still reflecting more blue (cooler) than the HP does but it comes close over the rest. Yes, there is more that makes a difference between paper coatings like absorption of the inks, the spectral quality of the inks etc but for a dozen A3+'s ? Some custom adjustments on a duplicate image and keep the action for it to copy on other images may be enough.

BTW for HP Vivera pigment printers the HP Premium ID papers showed the least gloss bronzing of an RC papers and I did not observe that much fading over time. Aardenburg Imaging tests were not that bad either on color shifts. Pieter Kers used them as well, he might shine his light on that aspect.

EDit, I should have taken the HP Pro Satin version,  better check that one yourself in SpectrumViz

Added an equivalent paper white for Pro here. Whether Sihl has a profile for that Epson printer I do not know but it was the only measurement I could find that came close.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

Ernst, I am so impressed.
Your willingness to help and knowledge are admirable. I installed your software and checked some papers. It looks quite similar to paper which I asked lately Hahnemuehle about, i.e. Harman by HM Gloss Baryta320 (They provided very quick and accurate solution - profile and media type). It is also quite close to long gone Harman Gloss  FB Al.
They have no knowledge regarding HP Pro Satin and your suspicion regarding Sihl looks quite probable. Sihl had short period when they enter consumer market with very nice papers. Pity.
Anyway I will check those settings, hopefully during this weekend.

Thank you all: Ernst, Kyle, Andrew, sportmaster.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Ernst, I am so impressed.
Your willingness to help and knowledge are admirable. I installed your software and checked some papers. It looks quite similar to paper which I asked lately Hahnemuehle about, i.e. Harman by HM Gloss Baryta320 (They provided very quick and accurate solution - profile and media type). It is also quite close to long gone Harman Gloss  FB Al.
They have no knowledge regarding HP Pro Satin and your suspicion regarding Sihl looks quite probable. Sihl had short period when they enter consumer market with very nice papers. Pity.
Anyway I will check those settings, hopefully during this weekend.

Thank you all: Ernst, Kyle, Andrew, sportmaster.

It is no secret that Sihl at least did (but probably still does) the coating steps of several Hahnemuhle's inkjet papers. This time I did not check papers beyond the RC category in SpectrumViz. Hope the match you found works out well for you.

Ernst, op de lei getypt.

[Ernst Dinkla]

BTW,  As a former Patchtool customer I got an email from BabelColor, both Patchtool and CTA are now freeware thanks to Danny Pascal

Andrew mentioned that already:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=144320.0

In CTA there is a function to measure paper white, with a non-UV blocked compatible spectrometer you can also measure the OBA fluorescence effect of papers. There is more ...

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

[Kyle D Jackson]

@Ernst that Sihl plot certainly looks like a convincing match! And the effect of added thickness seems evident there too (in the B measures).

Just before you posted about Babel I was looking at the Aardenberg test pages again for any difference in paper characteristics between print samples that might indicate the paper forumulation changed, but I'm not sure I found anything conclusive. The final print sample (out of 4) shows the white point b* at -0.8, vs the +0.5~0.7 range of the first 3 prints, which seems like quite a shift from blue to yellow. But since that report goes on to describe yellowing that occurs while in storage, and the print seems to have been stored for 8 months before it was measured, it's difficult to infer much about the paper's "true" white point, let alone whether the formulation was changed.

I'd love to try measuring some of my own samples for shifts n grins but I don't have a print spectro, only the screen ones.