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Author Topic: Street? What’s that?  (Read 2979 times)

Rob C

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Street? What’s that?
« on: October 30, 2024, 10:46:54 am »

The reference, of course, is to “street”, as in street photography.

There was a time, quite a long one at that, during which I felt that street photography could be fairly well defined in a manner that left little - if any - room for misunderstanding of what was meant by that term. Today, I have grown very unsure of that belief, to the extent that I am starting to think that the term no longer has any kind of real meaning anymore.

As we know, language itself is in a fairly constant state of flux, and it shouldn’t really come as a great surprise to us that that can also affect the meaning of once-accepted definitions. However, I think that in this case, with any formerly accepted definition of street, the difficulty doesn’t arise from linguistic changes, but from the very nature of the beast itself. It has expanded, become more than a little fat. In fact, it has become a victim of its own popularity and, in a sense, of its accepted masters.

Some were inclined to believe that the definition really meant nothing more than that a particular photograph had been made in a street. Many of us were infuriated by that attitude, thinking it to be demeaning of the genre - or at the very least to be an unconscious revelation of an absolute ignorance of what street truly is. Today, I’m no longer so sure that the formerly simplistic view was not really the correct one.

The Internet has opened eyes to a much wider world of opinion and experience. It’s not really any longer safe to cling determinedly to some old standards. Not only has the original meaning been expanded, some formerly unseen versions of the art made visible, but some of the old heroes have had feet of clay revealed for the world to see.


If those feet are now in the public domain, some of those sainted reputations at least diluted somewhat, it’s my belief that we can thank (or curse) those gallerists and book publishers whose greed led to the raiding of archives and the unveiling of so much material that might better have remained unseen. When you’re dead, I suppose you can do little to protect that which you leave behind, your reputation included.

Another thing to remember is this: photographers who once made names and reputations from photo-journalism have seen their markets all but vanish. What can they do to replace them? In some very notable instances, their agencies have gone on to recreate them through the production of books: Magnum comes to mind. Think of some of the illustrious names active there today, and your mind goes to the contemporary idea of street, especially in colour, and with an apparently new kind of distinction that’s referred to as layering. Once, it was simply an unremarkable part of creating an image, and nobody thought to label it as a new exotic. Today, it has become necessary to gild lilies.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2024, 10:51:13 am by Rob C »
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KLaban

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2024, 04:19:32 pm »

I know Street when I see it: I even know Street when I capture it. Defining it is somewhat of a fool's errand.

I'd post a few of my own here, but that could well be seen as another fool's errand. 

Rob C

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2024, 04:56:58 pm »

When you stop to think about it, Memphis Slim was right: “…we all gotta go back to Mother Earth.” The surprising thing is that we manage to do anything at all, considering the final pay-off.

It doesn’t pay to think too much. :-(

Chris Kern

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2024, 06:05:42 pm »

The reference, of course, is to “street”, as in street photography.

There was a time, quite a long one at that, during which I felt that street photography could be fairly well defined in a manner that left little - if any - room for misunderstanding of what was meant by that term. Today, I have grown very unsure of that belief, to the extent that I am starting to think that the term no longer has any kind of real meaning anymore.

Haven't we been here before?

At the risk of repeating myself (a habit which my wife frequently assures me is one of my most endearing traits), I think it is possible to define "street" in a way that is consistent with the classics of the original "miniature camera" era but allows a more expansive interpretation of the genre that is plausibly derivative of the originals without promiscuously accepting every random example of documentary or candid photography.

Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking with it.

Quote
Street photography documents ephemeral, unposed interactions in public spaces between people, or between people and their surroundings, in a way that implies a narrative instead of simply depicting what was in front of the camera’s lens.  The narrative may be explicit or implicit, obvious or subtle, literal or ironic, and subject to varying interpretations by different viewers.  Animals or objects may take the place of people if their relationship with other elements in the photograph contributes to the narrative.  Similarly, the interaction need not take place in a street or an urban environment or even outdoors.

Donc, selon moi ...

(I tried to post these images inline, but that didn't work.  Is that yet another new LuLa bug or did I fat-finger the syntax?)

This is "street."
And so is this.
As is this, notwithstanding the interior venue.

This is arguable: maybe an informal portrait?
I think I can make a better argument for this one.

This is a street.  It's not "street."
This isn't, either.
Finally, this really would be "street" but for Photoshop.

KLaban

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2024, 06:27:39 pm »

When you stop to think about it, Memphis Slim was right: “…we all gotta go back to Mother Earth.” The surprising thing is that we manage to do anything at all, considering the final pay-off.

It doesn’t pay to think too much. :-(

The Downfall of Man.

degrub

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2024, 06:29:41 pm »

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KLaban

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Rob C

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2024, 08:14:37 am »

The Downfall of Man.




I suppose he was too drunk to read the implied No Entry sign; a hard day's night, then.

Ivo_B

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2024, 08:42:11 am »

IVO nailed one imo
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=144073.0

Thanks. :-)

And that for someone who believe thinking outside the definition is liberating. :-)
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Rob C

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2024, 08:55:07 am »

Donc, selon moi ...

(I tried to post these images inline, but that didn't work.  Is that yet another new LuLa bug or did I fat-finger the syntax?)

1.  This is "street."
2.  And so is this.
3.  As is this, notwithstanding the interior venue.

4.  This is arguable: maybe an informal portrait?
5.  I think I can make a better argument for this one

6.  This is a street.  It's not "street."
7.  This isn't, either.
8.  Finally, this really would be "street" but for Photoshop.

.........................


Alors, pour moi:

1.  No; it's musical commentary (Abbey Road).
2.  Yes, agreed.
3.  No, not for me.

4.  Certainly is.
5.  Dangerously political for this thread! ;-)

6.  Not so sure that it's not: gives the sense of a ray of hope.
7.  Agreed, it's not.
8.  Not for me; I like it on its own, non-categorised merits.

On the wider level, if one takes people like HC-B and declares them to be masters of the decisive moment, then the argument enters the world of the miraculous: HC-B used to be an aficionado of the contact sheet... are we to assume, then, that he managed to capture miracle after miracle, thirty-six magically decisive moments per cassette?

I believe that much of the success of such photography depended on serendipity, many exposures, and the final cut from whatever the contacts offered. I suspect that if the younger HC-B had had access to motor drives he would have used them.

KLaban

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2024, 10:37:44 am »


I suppose he was too drunk to read the implied No Entry sign; a hard day's night, then.

More likely the result of glue or weed. Cheaper and more widely available than alcohol in Islamic society.

Chris Kern

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2024, 07:49:55 pm »

On the wider level, if one takes people like HC-B and declares them to be masters of the decisive moment, then the argument enters the world of the miraculous: HC-B used to be an aficionado of the contact sheet... are we to assume, then, that he managed to capture miracle after miracle, thirty-six magically decisive moments per cassette?

I believe that much of the success of such photography depended on serendipity, many exposures, and the final cut from whatever the contacts offered. I suspect that if the younger HC-B had had access to motor drives he would have used them.

No doubt.  Serendipity inevitably is a component of good street photography—the decisive moment doesn't hang around indefinitely for stragglers—and with respect to motor drives, I also suspect Cartier-Bresson and his ilk would have exploited them had they been available.

What we now think of as the classic street photographers of the Golden Era were what we now refer to as early adopters.  Instead of having to change plates for each picture, they glommed onto the new high-tech miniature cameras, which could be carried with one hand or slung from a narrow shoulder or neck strap, capture multiple images on a 36-exposure pre-loaded cassette, and offered virtually instantaneous focusing by merging two views in the rangefinder.  They shot from the figurative hip and their pictures captured life on the fly.  (I'm trying to squeeze in as many clichés here as possible, as you may have detected.)

Okay, Weegee may have been an exception to my early-adopter argument, but there is a counter-revolutionary in every artistic movement.

The early Leicas and Zeiss Contaxes of the 1930s were photographic instruments as revolutionary as today's cellphone cameras.  Actually, I would argue more so: because before the cellphone cameras, we had dedicated digital cameras which could do essentially the same thing (albeit without computational imaging techniques); the transition from the Speed Graphic to the Leica required a greater leap of faith.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 07:54:08 pm by Chris Kern »
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Rob C

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2025, 07:03:43 am »

Street photography is always the same thing: an attempt to capture the reflection of the chaos of the world on the skin of a soap bubble.

Most of those bubbles simply burst.

kers

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2025, 08:39:27 am »

street
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2025, 09:45:53 am »

Street photography appears to be mostly a desperate attempt to make a silk purse out of sow's ear.... to imply deep meaning where there is very little one... to forcefully elevate banality into "art"...

kers

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2025, 12:11:47 pm »

talking about banalities:

wish you all a better 2025 !
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Rob C

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2025, 12:38:28 pm »

Street photography appears to be mostly a desperate attempt to make a silk purse out of sow's ear.... to imply deep meaning where there is very little one... to forcefully elevate banality into "art"...

“Mostly” that's where it falls. However, there are some amazing examples of where it works very well.

Of course, to support this argument, one first has to have a preconception of what one means by the term, street photography, when attempting to evaluate it. I feel that it's easier to recognise and evaluate when considering the earlier works, such as those of Saul Leiter. I find it is generally more successful when it takes the form of colour abstraction, rather than when it attempts to make informal pictures of random people.

Even there, with people, photos that depend on graphics can seem better than those that simply catch a facial expression. I suppose one could put informal street portraiture into the street bag, but somehow, portraits can just be portraits, with no subliminal meaning whatsoever.

All in all, perhaps this grey area of definitions is key to what keeps people who do it, doing it.

I think that there is just cause to accept that a “street” photograph can be of anything, and still have some merit/interest if the post work can make it look dramatic enough; after all, if we have no formally declared context, how will we ever know if the shot achieves its aims? At least, it might be more thrilling than yet another sunrise or sunset, however pretty that might look; predictable images of predictable events.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2025, 12:46:21 pm by Rob C »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2025, 06:34:14 pm »

talking about banalities:...

That's not banality, but bananity ;)

Chris Kern

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2025, 12:06:02 pm »

That's not banality, but bananity ;)

The premodern Banana Art movement was characterized by an appreciation of rapidly-ripening fruit, and is believed to have been inspired as a western variant of the wabi sabi suki esthetic among North American and Western European visitors to banana republics during the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, who believed, with Picasso, that "apples are a lie that make us realize the banana," and which subsequently morphed, in the 21st Century, into the Banana Fans movement after Internet influencers felt compelled to find a readily-available alternative to the elusive Fujifilm X100VI.

Rob C

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Re: Street? What’s that?
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2025, 01:35:40 pm »

I think that Fuji may be going off piste with their latest Mk VI.

They originally had a camera that caught the eye of a section of the buying public, began to iterate like mad, yet versions later, still don’t offer a real manual focus system (focus by wire is the best that it does) and the lens failed to come up with depth of field scales. To the kind of person who does what the thing is supposed to be for, street, setting focus before framing takes place is a common technique (zone focussing) that requires scales that are visible without resorting to graphics on a screen.

I wonder why they feel obliged to start going with more megapixies? That can only drive up costs and addresses none of the non-af focus problems. Street’s not about silken images - in fact, many people add grain just because of the subject matter. Could it be that they are thinking of starting to compete with the Leica Q variations? I suppose that if you do drive up prices you might also drive up the expectations of the buyers… real rainproofing comes to mind.

However, having just castigated Fuji for not offering a proper dof  scale on the lens, let me mention Nikon: pretty much a career-long Nikon user, I have to admit to total confusion with its dof scales. Coloured lines instead of numerals is a cheap, lousy cop out, in my opinion, and next to worthless, especially in the heat of the moment.
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