Z3100 printer extracting ink from cartridge

[hogloff]

I have an almost full ink cartridge for my Z3100 that gives me a faulty ink cartridge error message whenever I insert this cartridge. Other cartridges work fine, just this one. I've tried numerous times to clean the contacts both on the cartridge as well in the printer without success.

Is there a way to extract the ink from this cartridge and put it into a functioning cartridge. Would the printer know there is more ink in the cartridge or is there some method the cartridge itself keeps track of the amount of ink that flows through the cartridge in determining how much remaining ink it contains.

I just want to be able to use up the ink in this almost full cartridge that always comes up faulty when I insert it.

[Kyle Jackson]

Hi, yes it can certainly be done, tho I don't have specific details. When I googled this a while ago I saw some refill kits online (pushing off-brand inks) that had syringes for refilling cartridges. As long as a cartridge is good, it should work fine. Ink level tracking might be off, but it'll still yell when it runs out.

I have some syringes here from LPS Computer for pulling air from ink tubes in the printer, and one of my to-do lists is to see if I can use it for draining/refilling ink carts. The cart has a simliar-looking ink port as the printhead carriage, but I don't know what the check-valve is like in it.

If you ever open one of these carts, it's just a bag of ink connected to the ink port. You can get ink out of it any way you want since the cart is toast anyhow, it's inserting it into another cart that needs a suitable syringe/tool.

The rest is just plastic case and the chip stuck on it. Way back I tried a chip swap to rescue a cart like this. I forget the details of what I tried, but it didn't work for me. I hear it can tho. I often see recommendations to get low carts out of the printer before it flags them empty so they can be refilled. So far I'm never fast enough to catch one in time.

[hogloff]

Hi, yes it can certainly be done, tho I don't have specific details. When I googled this a while ago I saw some refill kits online (pushing off-brand inks) that had syringes for refilling cartridges. As long as a cartridge is good, it should work fine. Ink level tracking might be off, but it'll still yell when it runs out.

I have some syringes here from LPS Computer for pulling air from ink tubes in the printer, and one of my to-do lists is to see if I can use it for draining/refilling ink carts. The cart has a simliar-looking ink port as the printhead carriage, but I don't know what the check-valve is like in it.

If you ever open one of these carts, it's just a bag of ink connected to the ink port. You can get ink out of it any way you want since the cart is toast anyhow, it's inserting it into another cart that needs a suitable syringe/tool.

The rest is just plastic case and the chip stuck on it. Way back I tried a chip swap to rescue a cart like this. I forget the details of what I tried, but it didn't work for me. I hear it can tho. I often see recommendations to get low carts out of the printer before it flags them empty so they can be refilled. So far I'm never fast enough to catch one in time.

Thanks for the info. What keeps track of the remaining ink in a cartridge? Obviously this information is stored on the cartridge but most likely tracked by the printer. So if I refill a cartridge with ink using a syringe the printer would not know it is full. Will the printer just notify you the cartridge is nearly empty and just continue using the ink that was inserted into that cartridge?

[Ernst Dinkla]

Hi, yes it can certainly be done, tho I don't have specific details. When I googled this a while ago I saw some refill kits online (pushing off-brand inks) that had syringes for refilling cartridges. As long as a cartridge is good, it should work fine. Ink level tracking might be off, but it'll still yell when it runs out.

I have some syringes here from LPS Computer for pulling air from ink tubes in the printer, and one of my to-do lists is to see if I can use it for draining/refilling ink carts. The cart has a simliar-looking ink port as the printhead carriage, but I don't know what the check-valve is like in it.

If you ever open one of these carts, it's just a bag of ink connected to the ink port. You can get ink out of it any way you want since the cart is toast anyhow, it's inserting it into another cart that needs a suitable syringe/tool.

The rest is just plastic case and the chip stuck on it. Way back I tried a chip swap to rescue a cart like this. I forget the details of what I tried, but it didn't work for me. I hear it can tho. I often see recommendations to get low carts out of the printer before it flags them empty so they can be refilled. So far I'm never fast enough to catch one in time.

Replacing a chip cap of a flawed cart (or of a 300ML cart with identical ink like the HP 772 variety) with a chip cap of a similar used cart usually solves the issue. It will be reported empty or near empty so weight has to be checked from time to time. An empty 130ML cart is about 50 grams, an empty 300ML cart about 120 grams.

I had carts that showed another issue though, most likely the small black valve within the membrane pump is not sealing tight enough and then the pumping activity simply isn't there, ink flows forwards and backwards through that valve then and no ink is pressed in the line. Worse, it might even drain the line a bit if the connections upwards are not tight either.
Do not refill carts at the connector that fits on the pin in the cartridge slot for the same reason. The black valve will not allow ink to flow into the ink pouch and with too much pressure it may even block the channel there when deformed. There is another opening with a small rubber ball that can be taken out. You can fill the cart through there and a the ball pushed in again. Or use another ball with a hole made with a syringe needle and use another syringe needle + syringe to fill the cart and then close the hole with a small copper nail. Been there, have the filthy T-shirt.

I prefer 300ML carts with a replaced chip cap and if I refill them for any reason, I just cut a small corner of the pouch that is situated at the highest point when inserted in the printer's cart slot. Pay attention to the following: the silver colored pouch (PET material most likely) has on both sides transparent liner foil inside (PE I guess), so when the corner is cut with scissors you actually create three reservoirs and the ink should be in the center one, no ink will flow from the side ones. These foil layers are very hard to see at the corner opening. I need a lot of light and patience to do it right. When ready I fold the corner twice and put a paperclip over that folded edge. Then the 300ML cartridge top cap is replaced again.

[Kyle Jackson]

Hi Ernst, when replacing a faulty chip cap with a working one, how do you separate the ink bag from the old cap? When I looked at this a few years ago I couldn't figure out how to remove the bag from the cap. So instead I think I tried removing the chip itself from the plastic cap, and then sticking a different chip in its place, but it didn't work for me (I think I used the wrong chip, but I really can't remember now what happened, I just remember trying something and it didn't work).

@hogloff my understanding is nothing is stored on the cartridge chip by the printer, it's simply a read-only ID tag, but now I'm not 100% sure of that because when I switch carts between printers they show the same level. So either estimated ink level is actually saved on the cart, or the printer has another way to assess level independently by testing the ink delivery somehow.

Anyhow for empty/fault flag status, I believe that's in the printer memory only. I think it tracks up to 3 carts (similar for heads). We can actually move one to another printer and each printer will do its own assessment about the cart/head status. And if you have more than 3 on hand for a slot (unlikely lol but interesting to know), then you can cycle them through the printer and it will "forget" the oldest one and re-assess it. And if it's since been refilled or whatever and it's fine now, then the printer will use it again. Or at least this is what I recall reading somewhere..., the problem is it's rare for someone to have more than 3 for the same slot so reports are scarce. (I wonder now if it's possible to do a printer memory reset that puts it back to original out-of-box state so that it forgets all carts/heads that it used... Probably a few cons to that approach tho!)

[Ernst Dinkla]

Hi Ernst, when replacing a faulty chip cap with a working one, how do you separate the ink bag from the old cap? When I looked at this a few years ago I couldn't figure out how to remove the bag from the cap. So instead I think I tried removing the chip itself from the plastic cap, and then sticking a different chip in its place, but it didn't work for me (I think I used the wrong chip, but I really can't remember now what happened, I just remember trying something and it didn't work).

@hogloff my understanding is nothing is stored on the cartridge chip by the printer, it's simply a read-only ID tag, but now I'm not 100% sure of that because when I switch carts between printers they show the same level. So either estimated ink level is actually saved on the cart, or the printer has another way to assess level independently by testing the ink delivery somehow.

Anyhow for empty/fault flag status, I believe that's in the printer memory only. I think it tracks up to 3 carts (similar for heads). We can actually move one to another printer and each printer will do its own assessment about the cart/head status. And if you have more than 3 on hand for a slot (unlikely lol but interesting to know), then you can cycle them through the printer and it will "forget" the oldest one and re-assess it. And if it's since been refilled or whatever and it's fine now, then the printer will use it again. Or at least this is what I recall reading somewhere..., the problem is it's rare for someone to have more than 3 for the same slot so reports are scarce. (I wonder now if it's possible to do a printer memory reset that puts it back to original out-of-box state so that it forgets all carts/heads that it used... Probably a few cons to that approach tho!)

EDited this reply more a day later.

That bottom chip cap is only secured by the stickers at the sides and some ridges at the side of the injection molded plastic cap giving friction inside the bigger cartridge part grooves. For the new chip cap I add 4 office tape pieces to replace what the stickers did in holding it all together. The ink bag has a milky plastic plate with the membrane pump, ink connector seal etc sealed at the bottom. That is the piece you see in the image (though the black pump part + small spring is there removed), the two ears at opposite sides of the pump house fall into two slits of the bigger cartridge part, they are concealed by the stickers at the outside. Quite easy to guide some plastic strips between them and the hull and pull the bag out. As I wrote it is all easier with 300ML carts as they have a separate top cap that can be removed, no need to pull the bag out, it shows its top with top cap removed. Filling at that side through a cut corner and not adding more than say 200ML with as small funnel is way easier than on the 130ML carts which require a smaller and more precise amount with a syringe (foam issue) and they need it more often. You can saw off the top of a 130ML cart with the bag removed but filling issues remain the same. Also a PE liner in the pouch of the 130ml carts.

AFAIK, the chip gets info from the printer based on fired droplet counts and that info stays stored on the chip. I have two printers and they tell similar content if a cart is exchanged. HP is listening in too what happens in the printers. I can not explain otherwise when a refilled empty cart (chip) still functions over time but goes from genuine to third party ink type in the warnings I get on the printer panel. It would surprise me if that warning change is based on fired droplet counts. BTW I always use the genuine HP pigment inks but come from all sizes of cartridges.

The printer has more functions to reject a cartridge or a head. If pumping activity on the cartridge does not deliver ink it will not go unnoticed I think. Feedback from the electronics can tell enough.

What you mention about the short memory on used carts in the printer that is what I recall of the page wide office printers. With two cartridges used after another on a printer of that range it forgets the older cart. At least that is what a third party ink supplier mentioned on his site some years ago as a means to circumvent that limitation. Anyway for desktop printers the limitations can vary with older and newer firmware/software updates, quite often complaints hit the IT news media when a new update goes around.