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Author Topic: Magic Eraser  (Read 1789 times)

Chris Kern

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Magic Eraser
« on: May 25, 2024, 04:23:08 pm »

I've been experimenting with the limits of Lightroom's new Generative Remove feature.  As with all image manipulation technology based on machine-learning that I have used to date, there are indeed limits—some probably caused by the particular contents of the samples used to train the neural network and others, I suspect, that are an inevitable result of manufacturing data to fill in the "holes" left by removed image elements.

Still, with a little work, I've been able to produce results that are quite plausible from captures that previously seemed essentially hopeless.  I've attached before-and-after renderings of a photo of a street crossing in Tokyo that was marred by distracting light and traffic signals as well as pedestrians who were cut off at the edge of the image frame.  This strikes me as close to a worst case because the image includes people occluding other people: in some parts of the image you don't have the type of patterned background that would simplify the process of generating the fill-in data.

It took a bit of fiddling to coax the neural network to recognize what exactly I wanted to remove and to paint acceptable alternatives into the image.  I also had to segment some of the removals and perform them sequentially, as is sometimes necessary when using Photoshop's Content Aware Fill, but the process was reasonably straightforward and the round-trip to Adobe's servers was commendably swift.

At 1:1, I can identify some artifacts, but for online posting this seems like a decent result.  Even an 18x12-inch print looks fine at a reasonable viewing distance.

digitaldog

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Re: Magic Eraser
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2024, 04:59:58 pm »

Wow, that's very impressive! Great example, thanks.
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francois

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Re: Magic Eraser
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2024, 05:55:55 am »

Superb example. I would have struggled and spent a long time doing this by hand (and probably given up as my results would be subpar at best).
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Francois

nemophoto

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Re: Magic Eraser
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2024, 12:03:54 pm »

Wow! Ditto Andrew's remark. It will be interesting to try out on some of my shots.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Magic Eraser
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2024, 02:59:09 pm »

Victoria Bampton has a concise essay offering useful tips on how to get LR's Generative Remove to do what you want it to do.

francois

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Re: Magic Eraser
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2024, 03:44:07 am »

Victoria Bampton has a concise essay offering useful tips on how to get LR's Generative Remove to do what you want it to do.

Thanks for the pointer to Victoria's article!
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Francois

Paul2660

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Re: Magic Eraser
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2024, 04:03:16 pm »

Glad it works for you. I have found the LR version to be much less capable than the version in Photoshop.

Hopefully LR will continue to improve.

Paul
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pflower

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Re: Magic Eraser
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2024, 02:08:58 pm »

This makes me rather uneasy.  I have tried the remove tool in PS which works much better than the one in LR (although I haven't upgraded to v14 yet).  I successfully removed a person who was lurking in the background of one photo and in another I removed a couple of lampposts.  To my eye the removals improved the photo but then I felt like I had cheated and felt a bit guilty.  I come from the old film days when the common practice was to file out the sides of the negative holder to produce a black border to show that the whole of the negative had been printed.  That was a sort of point of honour.

The new AI tools now available are both extraordinary and fascinating.  Even the non-AI features of PS and LR allow far greater control than I, at least, could ever achieve in the darkroom when it comes to B&W prints and I would never have tried printing my own colour images pre digital - and I embrace that fully.   There are clearly ethical problems when we consider reportage - can we trust the image before us.  But I wonder.. do they not point to a world in which we photograph not what we see or pre-visualise as a print but what we wish we could or should have seen?  And does that detract from the art of photography?

I have no answers or even clear opinions on this - and of course photographers have always retouched negatives, played with developers, dodged and burned to produce their prints.  But generative fill and generative remove move us into a rather different world.

Just thinking out loud and hoping that this forum can return to a more lively and active discussion.
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digitaldog

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Re: Magic Eraser
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2024, 02:18:07 pm »

Just thinking out loud and hoping that this forum can return to a more lively and active discussion.
If you had spent minutes (or hours) doing the same with the Clone Tool (from 1990's Photoshop v1 or later) would you feel less guilty?
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Chris Kern

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Re: Magic Eraser
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2024, 02:36:32 pm »

There are clearly ethical problems when we consider reportage - can we trust the image before us.

That's the purpose of the Content Authenticity Initiative.

Quote
But I wonder.. do they not point to a world in which we photograph not what we see or pre-visualise as a print but what we wish we could or should have seen?  And does that detract from the art of photography?

Or does it enhance the art of photography by making it less of a purely mechanistic process?

Quote
I have no answers or even clear opinions on this - and of course photographers have always retouched negatives, played with developers, dodged and burned to produce their prints.  But generative fill and generative remove move us into a rather different world.

In addition to external post-processing under the direct control of the photographer, digital cameras offer in-camera processing to render JPEGs or other pixelated images automatically.  And modern cellphones go one better: they employ computational processing techniques, typically based on machine-learning, to take the light that hit the sensor and create a derivative image that is designed (1) to "look better" according to the implementors of the cellphone software or (2) to apply stylistic controls to create a "creative" result.
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