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Author Topic: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?  (Read 788 times)

Damir

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Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« on: February 20, 2023, 05:59:34 pm »

Does any HP Z user have problem with Qimage?

I invest lot of time to learn to use Qimage. It is really handy once you know how to use it, unfortunately quality of my prints is suffering. At first, I thought that something is wrong with my printer. Again, time, paper, ink, calibration of all possible parameters, results are very bad. Finally, I decide to go back to Photoshop for printing, and my prints start to be perfect again.

Printing from Qimage make colors wrong, and in black and white images destroy all the details in the darker part of print. It takes me some time to figure it out that it is software, and not printer, as I got new (used) machine approximately at the time I started to use Qimage.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2023, 04:23:14 am »

Does any HP Z user have problem with Qimage?



I invest lot of time to learn to use Qimage. It is really handy once you know how to use it, unfortunately quality of my prints is suffering. At first, I thought that something is wrong with my printer. Again, time, paper, ink, calibration of all possible parameters, results are very bad. Finally, I decide to go back to Photoshop for printing, and my prints start to be perfect again.

Printing from Qimage make colors wrong, and in black and white images destroy all the details in the darker part of print. It takes me some time to figure it out that it is software, and not printer, as I got new (used) machine approximately at the time I started to use Qimage.

There is one thing incompatible with HP Z printers in Qimage Ultimate  and that is the interactive control of the HP driver settings from QU's own menu. Use the Shift key + QU's Properties button to go directly to the HP printer driver and make the settings correct there, including which program does colour management, the driver or QU.  To reduce the number of settings in the printer driver you can change the printer driver default settings in Windows itself to what you use most often. Shift + Properties will default to these default settings. A very large custom printing paper size added in the default settings will not make chaos of the images you already had on QU's print page.
Recycling a job from the log files is not reliable either, check the print page size in the log file text at least. The QU colour management settings will be correct, in the printer driver the print page size may not, the portrait/landscape setting may not,  the paper type may not, the GE coating may not, the 300/600 PPI may not. In short I always bring the printer driver settings back to default and build them up again.
I was the one to ask Mike to add a key short cut to the printer driver default settings when he made QU more interactive with printer drivers. Which works nice with Epson and Canon drivers but not with HP drivers. According Mike due to HP not following Windows guidelines to driver construction.

Ernst, op de lei getypt.
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Damir

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2023, 06:52:28 am »

Thank you Ernst!

I really struggle for some time with quality of my prints using Qimage, huge loss of time and supplies, tweaking every picture several times in postproduction to get it right, tossed many test prints in garbage bin.

Obviously, it starts when Mike incorporates Driver AI, which I was not aware of, as it has nothing to do with HP. I already decided to buy new printer, probably Canon. As a devoted user of a Z printers from time Z 3100 appear in 2007., you can see how desperate I was. Finally, I decided to go back to printing from other software, and find out that nothing is wrong with my printer, it is as marvelous machine as ever.

Anyway, your answer helps me. Actually, all my drivers setting was correct, but you make me thinking about AI Driver. So, I started to play with settings, and now everything is correct, again.
Driver AI was configured as in my first picture. I switch off all the controls and it gets a much better. Colors are now correct, but somehow pale. Printer Accounting confirms that test page is printed with 12% less ink than from Photoshop. Then I switch on „Always set driver print quality to highest available “, and test print comes out perfect, ink consumption is now the same as from Photoshop.
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GST

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2023, 09:25:47 am »

I was under the impression Driver AI should at least not harm HP behaviour, but in this case it really looks like.
I would encourage you to discuss this directly with Mike at https://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate

regards
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2023, 02:10:33 pm »

I was under the impression Driver AI should at least not harm HP behaviour, but in this case it really looks like.
I would encourage you to discuss this directly with Mike at https://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate

regards

My related comments in the QU forum are done at least five years ago. When Mike went for further integration of the printer drivers in QU's menu structure. Vice versa interaction that would not work with the HP printer drivers as he knew and informed us about. I asked for a solution to bring back the direct control on the printer driver that we had before, he gave that key control to default state. I liked the way it was done before the two way interaction but could live with the solution in anticipation of improvements on other aspects. I am not sure whether they were worth it though. For example I had a nice arrangement for custom print page sizes accessible in QU's menu but could not trust changes made there anymore.
This was before AI was even considered for QU.

Ernst, op de lei getypt
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Binartem

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2023, 05:00:15 pm »

Driver AI is not applicable to HP printers.  In the Driver AI options, the only option that is applicable is auto color management: if that is checked, Qimage will set the HP Z driver color management setting based on whether or not you are using an ICC profile.  All other Driver AI options are not applicable (including the option to set quality to highest available) and do nothing if you check them when using an HP printer.  And of course, you can turn auto color management off anyway in which case you will have zero influence from Driver AI.

The issue with HP drivers is not that Qimage doesn't support them: it is that HP made incomplete drivers that do not report device capabilities to Windows.  So Qimage knows not to try.  You can open the driver (via the Properties button in Qmage) and make the same settings selections you can in any other software and it will work fine.

Regards
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Damir

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2023, 05:52:43 pm »

If Driver AI is not applicable to HP Z printers why I got changes in print quality?
Picture one (all on, except first checkbox) - print is disaster.
Switch everything off, pale color & too light print.
Check set quality to highest available only, print is almost the same as from Photoshop (blue and orange color are a little less saturated than when printing from Photoshop).
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Binartem

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2023, 10:10:31 pm »

If Driver AI is not applicable to HP Z printers why I got changes in print quality?
Picture one (all on, except first checkbox) - print is disaster.
Switch everything off, pale color & too light print.
Check set quality to highest available only, print is almost the same as from Photoshop (blue and orange color are a little less saturated than when printing from Photoshop).

Placebo of some sort.  There is literally no entry into the Driver AI code for an HP printer when you check/uncheck the highest quality option.  It sees it is an HP printer and literally exits the function and does nothing.

Mike
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GST

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2023, 01:48:32 am »

Hello Mike,

would it be possible to grey out all those inapplicable AI options in case HP is detected? This would just make thing less confusing for us.

thanks for your great product!
regards
Gernot
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Damir

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2023, 02:24:56 am »

Placebo of some sort.  There is literally no entry into the Driver AI code for an HP printer when you check/uncheck the highest quality option.  It sees it is an HP printer and literally exits the function and does nothing.

Mike

I am not sure what do you mean by placebo - there is visible effect of change which prove that it affect the print quality, it affect it in drastic way.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2023, 05:50:49 am »

Hello Mike,

would it be possible to grey out all those inapplicable AI options in case HP is detected? This would just make thing less confusing for us.

thanks for your great product!
regards
Gernot

I see that software shift to more driver integration was not done five years ago but three years ago and then I wrote the same request you do here:
https://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate/colors-print-issue-with-qimage-on-hpz9/msg25133/#msg25133

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

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Binartem

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2023, 07:33:01 am »

I am not sure what do you mean by placebo - there is visible effect of change which prove that it affect the print quality, it affect it in drastic way.

Placebo meaning, it had to be some other difference because an HP printer can't even get to that highest quality Driver AI option: it never even executes it.  In fact, there IS no code for that "highest quality" option for an HP printer.

All of Qimage's features are optional so if you uncheck the Driver AI options and then hold the Shift key while you click "Properties" to open the driver so Qimage doesn't remember prior settings, it'll work exactly like Photoshop (or any other program).  As long as you don't try to alter the settings on Qimage's UI and you do all that in the driver, there will be no difference in how Qimage handles the settings vs Photoshop, Lightroom, Affinity Photo, Gimp, etc.  So try holding the Shift key while you click Properties to open the driver since Qimage could be remembering an old/invalid driver setup.

The reason I don't like the idea of graying all that stuff out is that for the vast majority, it works fine without any issue.  You can change media type, sheet size, etc. with no issue.  The HP Z drivers are so buggy, however, that it may not work the same on all versions of Windows and problems may be isolated to certain Windows versions.  The only thing I know won't work is trying to set a custom media size outside the driver.  That doesn't work because HP uses the wrong media type index for custom size: they have ANSI B mapped to the standard index for custom (user) size so entering a custom media size outside the driver doesn't work due to the crosslinked media type index in the driver.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Qimage Ultimate not support HP Z printers?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2023, 09:10:02 am »

Placebo meaning, it had to be some other difference because an HP printer can't even get to that highest quality Driver AI option: it never even executes it.  In fact, there IS no code for that "highest quality" option for an HP printer.

All of Qimage's features are optional so if you uncheck the Driver AI options and then hold the Shift key while you click "Properties" to open the driver so Qimage doesn't remember prior settings, it'll work exactly like Photoshop (or any other program).  As long as you don't try to alter the settings on Qimage's UI and you do all that in the driver, there will be no difference in how Qimage handles the settings vs Photoshop, Lightroom, Affinity Photo, Gimp, etc.  So try holding the Shift key while you click Properties to open the driver since Qimage could be remembering an old/invalid driver setup.

The reason I don't like the idea of graying all that stuff out is that for the vast majority, it works fine without any issue.  You can change media type, sheet size, etc. with no issue.  The HP Z drivers are so buggy, however, that it may not work the same on all versions of Windows and problems may be isolated to certain Windows versions.  The only thing I know won't work is trying to set a custom media size outside the driver.  That doesn't work because HP uses the wrong media type index for custom size: they have ANSI B mapped to the standard index for custom (user) size so entering a custom media size outside the driver doesn't work due to the crosslinked media type index in the driver.

Mike, in practice the effort and the risks are not worth making some printer driver settings in QU's interface and the rest in the printer driver itself. Plus with log files that stretch over many years, QU used on three or four Windows systems over time, renewed custom media size lists in the printer driver, media presets added or removed from the printer HD, then a recalled job puts the direct QU things like the printer used,  printer profile + rendering, upscaling, corner marks, correctly in the menu texts. Thank you for that. But media preset, print page size, are most of the times not correct and on that QU's interface is unpredictable in what it tells you. I agree that it will be HP failing there (in more than one way) but the confusion can be controlled by greying out that information and blocking settings there from QU. I read the print page size in the log file, recall the job and then push Shift + click Properties to avoid waste of time or paper. Better safe than sorry. I wonder whether a log file text can be made more informative too, for example mention the media preset. Right now when in doubt (rare) the printer profile tells me what the media preset should be but sometimes odd choices were made in the past (or log files contain what went wrong in the past because of what we discuss here) and I have to decide whether I replicate that odd setting in the new print or use the correct settings.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

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