Silver EFEX Pro3 EDITING . How to be able to reEDIT.

[louismccullagh]

Hi
I am a MAC using latest nik Silver Efex with Fuji Raw files and entering NIK from Photoshop then when finished in NIK I say apply and get taken back to PS which now has a new layer for NIK.

I have read that if I am using a TIFF file I can go back into NIK Silver Efex and modify the editing I had already done. Do I have to open the Raw file then save it as a TIFF, then go into NIK from PS?

I am struggling to do this.

Can you suggest a workflow (or settings I need to change) to allow me to return to the NIK editing.

Many thanks. Currently I have to go back to the original file and start again which is tedious.

[digitaldog]

Hi
I am a MAC using latest nik Silver Efex with Fuji Raw files and entering NIK from Photoshop then when finished in NIK I say apply and get taken back to PS which now has a new layer for NIK.

You'er using what to edit the raws to get to Photoshop/Efex?
VERY unlikely you can go from raw to Efex and back again; the raw has to be rendered and it's no longer raw data.

[louismccullagh]

Hi Andrew
I use Camera Raw in PS then hit open and it takes me into PS then i take NIK Silver Efex.

Thank You

[digitaldog]

Hi Andrew
I use Camera Raw in PS then hit open and it takes me into PS then i take NIK Silver Efex.

Thank You

Adobe Camera Raw renders the image. So if the question is, how to get back from Efex to processing raw, you can't.
You could use Adobe Camera Raw as a filter, but again, that's not raw data.

[john beardsworth]

When you initially open the raw file in PS, you need to open it as a smart object. This is a special kind of layer which you can double click to re-edit the raw data in ACR, and your SFX work will be applied as smart filters which can also be re-edited.

[louismccullagh]

Thank you JOHN.

When editing I use PHOTO MECHANIC (have done since the year DOT) so a select an image and it takes me into PS/ACR. How do I get PS/ACR to open the image as a smart object or is it an action after ACR has opened it?

 I have been using PS for far too long (23+ years) and I have not used smart object facility. apologies for the lack of knowledge but I try to just use simple adjustments and have never gone very deep into the huge number of facilities of PS. I keep gettin lost as they are forever "improving" it, the way all stills cameras have now become video cameras!

Many thanks for your help. I am sure this will make my life easier.

I found a checkbox in prefs to open all images as special in ACR!

Is there a way in ACR to change an image to smart or indeed to revert from smart to normal?


Louis

[mcbroomf]

Is there a way in ACR to change an image to smart or indeed to revert from smart to normal?

Louis

It's in the ACR preferences (not PS).  The checkbox to open as a Smart Object is in the Workflow section. 
When in PS you can rasterize an image to switch from SO to normal (but you then loose the option to re-edit any filters etc)

[louismccullagh]

Thank you.

[john beardsworth]

Thank you JOHN.

When editing I use PHOTO MECHANIC (have done since the year DOT) so a select an image and it takes me into PS/ACR. How do I get PS/ACR to open the image as a smart object or is it an action after ACR has opened it?

 I have been using PS for far too long (23+ years) and I have not used smart object facility. apologies for the lack of knowledge but I try to just use simple adjustments and have never gone very deep into the huge number of facilities of PS. I keep gettin lost as they are forever "improving" it, the way all stills cameras have now become video cameras!

Many thanks for your help. I am sure this will make my life easier.

A downside of smart objects is the file size, because raw data is embedded in the smart object layer. But in return you get the flexibility of being able to subsequently fine tune the raw conversion, and SFX or other filters.

I think it's important to remember that "raw file smart objects" is only one very-specific use of smart objects. Equally-common is making smart objects which combine one or more layers - pixels, text etc - into a single object which can be used multiple times in the file, so for example imagine a PSD with a grid of membership badges where the background layer and standard text are defined once in a smart object which is then used in the grid layout behind each member's name. That's just one example which I hope I've explained clearly. All I suggest for now is that you just experiment with this second more general use of smart objects and then just park the idea until you notice that it could save you time and avoid repetitive work.

[louismccullagh]

Thank you.

I did get the smart object and edited it in NIK. Then I went into camera raw again for a minor tweak but I then found I couldnt get back into NIK it only gave me the option to change the "blend", maybe it was because there were now 2 smart filters under the main layer?

I am conscious of the file size but I am going through all my old BEST images and reprinting them so I am going back and tweaking them if the print doesn't totally satisfy me. Then I can save a master FLATTENED file and delete any interim files.

Thank you for your help.
Louis

[john beardsworth]

Normally a smart object would only have a single Nik smart filter, which you double click whenever you want to go back into SFX.

[John Hollenberg]

When you initially open the raw file in PS, you need to open it as a smart object. This is a special kind of layer which you can double click to re-edit the raw data in ACR, and your SFX work will be applied as smart filters which can also be re-edited.

I never knew how to use smart objects.  Works perfectly as you describe with Silver EFEX Pro.  Thanks!

[John Hollenberg]

When you initially open the raw file in PS, you need to open it as a smart object. This is a special kind of layer which you can double click to re-edit the raw data in ACR, and your SFX work will be applied as smart filters which can also be re-edited.

After making the smart object in PS, is there a way to edit the raw file in LR (rather than ACR) and have the changes propagate to the smart object in PS?  I haven't figured out a way to do this, perhaps it isn't possible.

John

[john beardsworth]

After making the smart object in PS, is there a way to edit the raw file in LR (rather than ACR) and have the changes propagate to the smart object in PS?  I haven't figured out a way to do this, perhaps it isn't possible.
John

Yes, what you need is an even newer type of smart object - the linked smart object. It's slightly messy, but see if you can follow this example.

• Starting in LR, I have an raw original which is cropped and adjusted. I do a Cmd/Crtl S to save this crop and other adjustments to the file.
• Ctrl/Cmd E to edit the image in PS.
• Save the file and close it. Saving and closing makes LR add this TIF file to the catalogue and works around a limitation of placing linked items.
• Reopen the TIF and do File > Place Linked. Choose our original, click OK in ACR, and then press return.
• This should now add the placed SO but it may not be correctly sized:
  - To resize the LSO, first check that the LSO layer is selected, then go to the Properties panel, and click the little Reset Transforms
  - I think the resizing is only needed if LR's External Editing sets a different Resolution to that set in ACR (so set them to the same value).
  But this bit seems tricky. If the LSO isn't aligned properly with the document, just do a Image > Reveal All, then Ctrl/Cmd click the LSO object layer and choose Image > Trim.
• Delete the background layer and save. We're essentially done - we've a linked smart object - but leave the TIF open for now so we can see the updating process.
  

Back in LR, do an adjustment and hit Ctrl/Cmd S. Tab over to PS and you'll see that the linked smart object is being updated. Close the TIF file, make some LR adjustments, save to xmp, then reopen the TIF and notice how the LSO layer has a warning triangle which tells you it needs updating.

This is relatively new and has improved in stages, though there are still one or two awkward bits - like LR's lack of Open as Linked Smart Object.

Note: I've revised steps 4/5

[digitaldog]

I never knew how to use smart objects.  Works perfectly as you describe with Silver EFEX Pro.  Thanks!

What's kind of important to understand about SO's is there isn't anything super magical here; you've got a layer stack and one 'layer' is the raw which you can re-edit (in Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom Classic as outlined). If you start with raw and send that to EFEX, you've rendered that data just to get there. The raw is still raw of course. And you can continue to edit it without issue, parametrically and fully non destructively. The rendered data, not so much (it is burned into pixels). There's no way to unbake that cake. Yes, you can go back to the raw and re-render it though EFEX. Yes, with SO's, you can edit the raw again within this stack. But its kind of important to understand the differences between the data and 'layers' within this SO.

[mcbroomf]

I didn't know about Linked Smart Objects so thanks for that tutorial.

But I really stopped in to say what a brilliant photo John.  Hurt my head a bit looking at all the paired elements.  Wonderfully seen ...

[john beardsworth]

Thank you, Mike. It was only this morning and all the sweeter for being unexpected on a rather-dull stretch of the Thames path in SE London.

[louismccullagh]

Thank you John.
To be clear you are saying with the smart object you can only do one filter which will be RE-Editable. Any extra filters on the smart object means you cannot Re-Edit.

Another restriction I found is after using NIk on a smart object I can no longer use tools such as dodge or burn, or am I working incorrectly.

Thank you all for your help.

[louismccullagh]

PS JOHN

I have TWO copies of your STEP BY STEP Digital Black and White.

[john beardsworth]

Two? I hope I say the same in both, Louis!

That book was before LR, and the later Advanced B&W was the first book to show LR/PS/SFX/smart object workflow (only as I got lucky with the timing). But linked smart objects are even more recent and I don't yet routinely use it, though it is now more practical and LSOs have other uses so are worth knowing.