What's the situation with C1 Licences now?

[gazwas]

Decided I would wait following the restructure of Capture One licensing following the release of 23.

It's now 8th Feb and I've been on the C1 site to look at what's been upgraded since November and what the pricing and loyalty scheme is like following the 1st Feb deadline and it all looks exactly the same?

Anyone got any info on what the hell is going on at C1?

EDIT: All I want to know is do I buy my usual annual licence or are updates stopping as reported? Used C1 since 1999 so what loyalty programs am I eligible for if I have go into a subscription?

[digitaldog]

Eight pages to slog through:
https://photopxl.com/forums/topic/capture-ones-new-license-options-terrible/

[myotis]

Decided I would wait following the restructure of Capture One licensing following the release of 23.

It's now 8th Feb and I've been on the C1 site to look at what's been upgraded since November and what the pricing and loyalty scheme is like following the 1st Feb deadline and it all looks exactly the same?

Anyone got any info on what the hell is going on at C1?

EDIT: All I want to know is do I buy my usual annual licence or are updates stopping as reported? Used C1 since 1999 so what loyalty programs am I eligible for if I have go into a subscription?

Nothing changes until 14th February.

For perpetual licenses, if you have a current license for v23 or update before 14th February, you will get bug fixes and new features until the 30th September 2023. You can carry on using this perpetual license (for as long as your OS supports it) but with no new features or bug fixes

After September you will need to buy an updated license on a 12 month cycle, which will bring you up to date with new features released during the previous 12 months, and give you bug fixes for the next 12 months, but again no new features during that 12 months

12 months later again, when/if your renew/update your 12 month license you will get all the new features released during the previous 12 months and bug fixes for the next 12 months. And so and so on.

The update price is rather less than the current update price (if you ignore discounts and special deals) £175 instead of £199 (40% discount on the full price).

If you renew/update every second year, you only get a 20% discount on the full price, and get all new features released during the previous two years, but bug fixes for only the next 12 months.

After two years there is no update discount (which is how it is now)

The two differences from how it works now, is that there are no new features between the annual license renewal dates (but still bug fixes), and there is a reduction in the upgrade cost (ignoring any deals that might have been available in the past).

The annual subscription and the 12 monthly perpetual license upgrade are now the same price, with two big changes to the subscription.

Moving from a perpetual license to a subscription allows you to keep your perpetual license alongside your subscription. And, if you have a subscription, and want to switch to a perpetual license, there is a discount on the perpetual license depending on how long you have had a subscription. After five years on a subscription, you get the perpetual license for free.

The loyalty discount for perpetual license holders is simply the 40% discount from the full price if you update every 12 months.

I also think (but can't remember properly) that perpetual license holders get a 20% discount on their first year of subscription, if they want to switch away from the perpetual license.

The loyalty discount for subscribers is a discount (or no cost) if you switch to a perpetual license.

I think that summarises what is happening.

I have upgraded to every new perpetual license release since V6 of C1 and there are no loyalty discounts for long term perpetual license users beyond the 20% discount on the first year costs of switching to a subscription. This applies to every perpetual license holder regardless of how long they have been using C1.

The full details and some tables comparing costs are here (but it's hard work):

https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/7998068628637

[gazwas]

Thanks for the replies and some of that makes for a depressing read to a long time lover of C1.

Looks like the subscription model is cheaper than updating every year for my perpetual licence but what I'm scratching my head at (since I'm an Adobe subscriber) is that the subscription is paid up front and no option for monthly. Regardless if I'm a perpetual or subscriber licence holder I have the full outlay up front for both methods unlike any subscription I've ever had and basically meaning its exactly the same as its always been? Normally there is at least a choice? I can't even cancel six months down the line if I get sick of waiting for new features.

Just checked...... It's three months (¼ of the year) since version 23 released and as of today there has yet to be any updates other that camera/lens support despite the promise that the subscribers would get more frequent updates under this scheme. Sort of worries me that interesting new feature and way more importantly, improvements to existing ones are completely absent.

Capture One is a brilliant product but what the hell is going on with the decision making at this company of late?

[Ferp]

Moving from a perpetual license to a subscription allows you to keep your perpetual license alongside your subscription.

I thought I read something to the contrary - that in moving to a subscription they would cancel your perpetual license - but I can't find that statement now.  It's not in the FAQs on the C1 site.  Did anyone else read that, or did I misread something, or have they back-tracked on that issue?  But equally I cant' find the above statement either.

My reaction was that cancellation of the perpetual license would be extremely unfair, as they were taking away something that you had bought on a perpetual basis.  It would make moving to a subscription a one-way trip, or at least a trip that was costly to reverse, as it would mean buying a full-price license to revert to a perpetual license.  But I can't now locate whatever it was I read.

What is the business up to?  My current reading is that they're increasing the incentives to move to a rental model, without taking away the perpetual license, which is an important feature for many people, yours truly included.  There has already been an incentive, as the annual rental was less that the annual upgrade fee IIRC, this just increases the incentive more.  Rental clearly has advantages, as Adobe can attest, as it provides a smoother revenue stream.  The move is not silly from their perspective, but gosh, they've mishandled it.

I've read the commentary on Photopxl, and I think Kevin Raber has over-reacted.  In part he has over-reacted because the initial attempts by C1 to explain the change were very poor.  It's possible that he reacted because he read it the same way I did. I wonder whether he has read C1's latest attempts to explain it.

While I'm not happy about the changes to the structure of their offerings, it probably won't affect me all that much.  I'd already decided to stop buying annual updates to my perpetual license.  I regretted the last couple as the changes weren't worth it, and so skipped V23.  I don't anticipate buying a new camera for several years, and had factored in buying a new license when I next do.  At current pricing I'll probably be ahead.  I will miss out on new features, but it's been quite a while since I've seen any that I really needed. 

I suspect that the changes have been brought about because there are enough people who think like this.  And it creates a vicious cycle.  If you don't bring in enough revenue to fund enhancements to keep up with Adobe's, which are considerable, then there are less upgrades, and so the cycle continues.  It's a hard cycle to break out of.  It's not clear to me that these changes will do it, particularly the very poor way they were initially explained.  They've got some work to do to counter that.

David Grover - do you still read this forum?

[myotis]

I thought I read something to the contrary - that in moving to a subscription they would cancel your perpetual license - but I can't find that statement now.  It's not in the FAQs on the C1 site.  Did anyone else read that, or did I misread something, or have they back-tracked on that issue?  But equally I cant' find the above statement either.

That is how it is now, but it's one of the changes that will come in on the 14th. Sorry, I thought I had explained it.

https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/8825486412189

Scroll down and it's in the first table, where it clearly says you get to keep your perpetual license.

[Ferp]

That is how it is now, but it's one of the changes that will come in on the 14th. Sorry, I thought I had explained it.

https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/8825486412189

Scroll down and it's in the first table, where it clearly says you get to keep your perpetual license.

Thanks.  You probably did explain it, but I find all these changes eye-glazing.  I hadn't realized that that was the way it worked now, but I haven't looked seriously at a subscription so hadn't read the fine print.  With a perpetual license, each upgrade cancels previous licenses.  IIRC it wasn't always that way, but it's been that way for a while.  I suspect that cancelling a perpetual license as part of a subscription was an artifact of how their licensing technology operated.

Keeping your perpetual license is probably only of limited comfort, as the older versions of C1 probably won't recognize edits done under the newer releases, and I bet updated catalogs won't be recognized either.  Despite all the offers and revised conditions intended to reassure, you either commit to one model or the other.  My next perpetual license is some years away.

[myotis]

With a perpetual license, each upgrade cancels previous licenses.
IIRC it wasn't always that way, but it's been that way for a while.  I suspect that cancelling a perpetual license as part of a subscription was an artifact of how their licensing technology operated.

That isn't correct. A current activation number would activate any previous versions of C1. What was cancelled was the previous activation number, not the previous version.

Keeping your perpetual license is probably only of limited comfort, as the older versions of C1 probably won't recognize edits done under the newer releases, and I bet updated catalogs won't be recognized either. 

It almost certainly won't, but you would have been there anyway if you hadn't renewed your perpetual license. If you take all the changes together, the switching between subscription and perpetual or perpetual and subscription, is a lot more flexible than it was.

It still feels overly complicated.

[Ferp]

That isn't correct. A current activation number would activate any previous versions of C1. What was cancelled was the previous activation number, not the previous version.

I think that's what I meant.  Although going backwards wasn't really a viable option because of the compatibility issue we both mentioned. 

[myotis]

I think that's what I meant.  Although going backwards wasn't really a viable option because of the compatibility issue we both mentioned.

I obviously misunderstood.