Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800  (Read 1126 times)

markgunion

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800
« on: February 04, 2023, 02:00:30 am »

I am looking at an unopened box of Epson Legacy Baryta II.    It is unopened because there is no icc profile to use with this paper for my P800 printer.    To cut to the chase, I talked to someone at Epson Professional Imaging (US) today who confirmed that Epson does not have an icc profile for using Epson Legacy Baryta II in a P800 printer.   Further, the people there did not know when such a profile would be available, or if it would ever be available.

So, caveat emptor -- if you are interested in this paper, be sure that Epson has an icc profile for your printer, or be prepared to make or fund a custom profile.

Mark Gunion
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20646
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2023, 12:09:25 pm »

Did you try the provided SC-P800_Series LegacyBaryta_PK_v1?
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

TonyW

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 643
Re: Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2023, 07:57:36 am »

If there are newer profiles or those not provided with the original Epson driver package you may find following this link helpful
https://epson.com/For-Work/Paper/Pro-Imaging/Legacy-Baryta-II/m/S450098

This Link opens the ICC profiles page
https://epson.com/Support/Printers/Professional-Imaging-Printers/SureColor-Series/Epson-SureColor-P800/s/SPT_SCP800SE

There are two listed Legacy Baryta PK and Legacy Baryta in the Windows profile section.  AFAIK the ICC files are identical and interchangeable between Windows and Mac OS

Mark D Segal wrote an excellent review/comparison on another website frequented by some former participants on this site
Logged

mcbroomf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1538
    • Mike Broomfield
Re: Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2023, 08:06:20 am »

If there are newer profiles or those not provided with the original Epson driver package you may find following this link helpful
https://epson.com/For-Work/Paper/Pro-Imaging/Legacy-Baryta-II/m/S450098

This Link opens the ICC profiles page
https://epson.com/Support/Printers/Professional-Imaging-Printers/SureColor-Series/Epson-SureColor-P800/s/SPT_SCP800SE

There are two listed Legacy Baryta PK and Legacy Baryta in the Windows profile section.  AFAIK the ICC files are identical and interchangeable between Windows and Mac OS

Mark D Segal wrote an excellent review/comparison on another website frequented by some former participants on this site

There is no ICC profile for the version II Baryta though.  In fact Mark's article mentions there isn't one for his P5000 either, and I checked the P8000, which is what I own, and nothing there either, just the 1st version.
Logged

TonyW

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 643
Re: Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2023, 08:38:02 am »

There is no ICC profile for the version II Baryta though.  In fact Mark's article mentions there isn't one for his P5000 either, and I checked the P8000, which is what I own, and nothing there either, just the 1st version.
Interesting, I wonder what the difference is between the listed Legacy Baryta profiles and how any would perform with the Baryta II papers? 

This may just be internet chatter but I have seen the suggestion that Epson Baryta and Canson Infinity Baryta papers come from the same source, if so perhaps Canson ICC profile Baryta Photographique II may be equivalent??

Other than that if the paper is that desirable perhaps a custom profile is in order?
Logged

mcbroomf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1538
    • Mike Broomfield
Re: Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2023, 09:39:17 am »

Interesting, I wonder what the difference is between the listed Legacy Baryta profiles and how any would perform with the Baryta II papers? 

This may just be internet chatter but I have seen the suggestion that Epson Baryta and Canson Infinity Baryta papers come from the same source, if so perhaps Canson ICC profile Baryta Photographique II may be equivalent??

Other than that if the paper is that desirable perhaps a custom profile is in order?
I asked Kevin on Photopxl if he might compare prints with the 2 profiles.  Not sure which printer he'll use if he does it.  I think he has a P900 amongst his LF wide printers.
Logged

hubell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1135
Re: Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2023, 05:47:41 pm »

Interesting, I wonder what the difference is between the listed Legacy Baryta profiles and how any would perform with the Baryta II papers? 

This may just be internet chatter but I have seen the suggestion that Epson Baryta and Canson Infinity Baryta papers come from the same source, if so perhaps Canson ICC profile Baryta Photographique II may be equivalent??

Other than that if the paper is that desirable perhaps a custom profile is in order?

This is what I would try. Or, return the Epson version and buy the Canson version, as Canson may have ICC profiles for that printer available.

markgunion

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Re: Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2023, 10:53:40 pm »

At    https://epson.com/Support/Printers/Professional-Imaging-Printers/SureColor-Series/Epson-SureColor-P800/s/SPT_SCP800SE#iccprofile   there are profiles for Legacy Baryta (01/29/16) and for Legacy Baryta PK (06/14/18).   But there is no profile for Legacy Baryta II.    At   https://epson.com/Support/Printers/Professional-Imaging-Printers/SureColor-Series/Epson-SureColor-P800/s/SPT_SCP800SE#drivers  Downloads > ICC_ profiles   it’s the same story.    Today I also downloaded the most recent version of Epson Print Layout (1.5.8 ) in hopes there might be a Legacy Baryta II profile bundled in it.   Alas, no luck.

Andrew, I have not tried the SC-P800_Series LegacyBaryta_PK_v1 profile.    I was hoping to find a profile made specifically for the Legacy Baryta II before I had to check down to alternative plans.    I might end up there, though.   

Tony, the Canson Baryta Photographique II appears to be a different paper from the Epson Legacy Baryta II.    For example, the Canson has an alpha-cellulose paper base and contains "very low" amounts of optical brightening agents, while the Epson is on 100% cotton paper and has no optical brightening agents.    Before I ordered the box of Epson Legacy Baryta II, I went through the specs all the Canson baryta papers, and none of them matched up with Epson Legacy Baryta II.   Maybe we'll see a new paper in the Canson line in a few months or years that will match to the Epson Legacy Baryta II, but there doesn't seem to be one at present.  BTW, I have sampled the Canson Baryta Photographique II and so far I do like it quite a bit.   During Epson's 3-for-2 sales, though, Epson Legacy Baryta II costs out at about 60% the price of the Canson Baryta Photographique II, and about 55% the cost of Moab Juniper Baryta 305 (which I also like).   For that level of potential savings, it seems prudent to get a good look at the Epson Legacy Baryta II at it's best (that is, with an appropriate profile) before I pick one.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 10:57:01 pm by markgunion »
Logged

jdoyle1713

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 187
    • http://www.shadesofpaper.com
Re: Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2023, 09:29:15 pm »

Well..been a Long Time since Ive posted to the forum..Been a Long Time Lurker But Since
no One Has The right answers Or even Partial.. Ill Try and Point you in the right Direction..
1st Off Epson wont have a Profile ever for a P800 Is a Discontinued Legacy Model..They Probably dont even Have one in the Lab..They Do Have it For The P900 The new Model..Second Legacy Baryta II Is NOT The Same product as The Canson Baryta II…So Let’s Play a Game Of Match The papers Up..Epson Is a OEM They Make Printers and INK..So The Baryta Has To Come from another source..HMMM…So Hahnemuhle Nope..Not even Close..Not To Mention Its 50’ in rolls..Innova well Not from The spec sheet..Canson Well Not From The spec sheet..So Who does Thatn Leave Or Did I Miss..Maybe someone can Help..maybe Try Moab Juniper Rag..Well Spec Sheets Look Close..So Maybe Try That Profile..
https://www.moabpaper.com/icc-profiles-downloads  Heck Its worth a Try..I Think I Might Try it Tomorrow..I Have a Custom Profile for it For Our Machines In House..Full Disclosure I am a Epson, Canon, Hahnemuhle,Innova,Moab,Canson
Authorized Reseller..

Cheers
JimmyD
www.shadesofpaper.com
Logged
Jim Doyle
[url=http://www.shadesofpaper.

markgunion

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Re: Epson Legacy Baryta II -- no icc profile for P800
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2023, 11:51:10 pm »

     This is a follow-up to my prior post/complaint (both here and on the Photopxl forum) about Epson not supporting its newly released Epson Legacy Baryta II paper with profiles for many Epson printers still commonly in use.    Taking the suggestions of Andrew Rodney, Mark Segal, and Kevin Raber, I trialed several profiles made for the P800 and other baryta papers.   Specifically, I used the profiles for the original Epson Legacy Baryta (oELB), Canson Baryta Prestige II (CBPres2), and Canson Baryta Photographique II (CBQue2).  I printed the widely known Atkinson test page and a synthetic grayscale step tablet.    This paper still has limited availability; my box was sourced from  www.ITSupplies.com, located near Chicago, Illinois, US. 
     Viewing the Atkinson test pages under 5000K LED lamps showed no large differences among the three profiles.   All three profiles produced very acceptable prints.  The prints left the impression that any one of them could be "tuned" in Photoshop to match either of the others without undue difficulty.   I did note specifically that there was no blue-magenta crossover in the arch and mud ripple images; with all three profiles the sky within the rock arch moved smoothly from lighter to darker blue without acquiring a magenta cast, and the water in the mud ripples reflected only magenta, and never became blue.   
          Three very small visual differences among the profiles were noted on the Atkinson test page:
             1.  contrast in the lava and in the aspen forest was slightly different among the three profiles:   oELB > CBPres2 = CBQue2 for both scenes;
             2.  midtones generally printed very slightly lower with the CBQue2 profile than the other two;
             3.  while there were a few spots where colors appeared very slightly more saturated with the CBQue2 profile, this could not be separated from the fact that these values seemed to be printed very slightly darker as well.
     The grayscale step tablet was scanned (Epson V750, Silverfast ai8, Lab colorspace) and measured in Photoshop.   The measured L values from the print were plotted against the step tablet L values (0 to 100 by 5) and the plots of the profiles were compared.   The plots were consistent with the small differences seen in the Atkinson test pages.   The measured L maximum and minimum did not vary significantly among the three profiles.   The CBPres2 plot was the most linear with a slight rise above linear beginning below the L35 step and curving gently down to dmax.    The CBQue2 plot was very similar but the L values measured were about 2 units lower than CBPres2 between about the L30 and L60 steps; this explains the slightly darker midtones noted in the Atkinson test page.   The oELB plot demonstrated a mild midtone contrast increase, centered at the L50 step; it was about 2.5 units above linear from the L60 to L85 steps, and about 1.5 units below linear from the L40 to L30 steps; this explains the very slightly higher contrast noted in the lava and aspen forest scenes on the Atkinson test page.
     Summary: 
           1.  In lieu of a printer-specific manufacturer profile any of these three profiles could generally be an adequate substitute, as far as can be determined from the information above (at least for a P800).
           2.  Of these three, the slightly preferred choice might be the Canson Baryta Prestige 2 (CBPres2) profile due to its general linearity through the mid- and lighter-tones.
           3.  Nothing about this limited evaluation adresses the gamut limits of these profiles on this paper.   Caveat emptor.
     Obviously, the measurements were done with "prosumer" level scanning equipment and not a direct read colorimeter.    That said, the results are internally consistent and did correlate well with what was seen in the Atkinson page prints, leading me to think they are at least generally correct as far as they go.   
     My thanks to Andrew Rodney, Mark Segal, and Kevin Raber for their very helpful suggestions to try these alternative profiles.   

Mark Gunion
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up