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Author Topic: Margins for a 17 x 22 paper  (Read 749 times)

cortlander

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Margins for a 17 x 22 paper
« on: January 10, 2023, 12:58:26 pm »

Hello:

Aesthetically, for unframed 17 x 22 prints that are kept loose, what do you think would be a pleasing margin?
1/2 inch? 1 inch? 1 1/2 in? 2 in?

Currently, I leave 1 inch on the long side resulting in a 20 in printed length and let the width float depending on the shot ( if under 16 inches). But I keep on getting drawn to beautiful wide empty spaces on all sides.

Same question for 13 x 19 paper.

Love to hear your views.

Best,
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cortlander

Paul_Roark

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Re: Margins for a 17 x 22 paper
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2023, 03:06:27 pm »

I have standardized on a 1" white border around the satin finish print.  I then frame, now with no glazing, using 1 1/4 inch satin black frames.  (The prints are dry mounted and sprayed with acrylic that water proofs them.)

All of the commercial frames in our house that came with matting that match the frame color/finish of my framed photos on the wall have more like 2" of white matte board showing.  (My wife prefers that larger amount of border.)

So, I think it's very subjective.  I'd guess the middle of that bell curve of preferences is closer to 2" than to my personal preference of 1" of white around the image.

FWIW

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Margins for a 17 x 22 paper
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2023, 01:45:48 pm »

The  wide margins for "archival" prints were origiinally done to protect the image. A lot of times, edges of prints began to discolor before the central image and were subject to physical abuse. That's why a lot of print makers began using 2" boarders on their prints. These days, if the print is to be overmatted, a 1/2" to 1" boarder is considered appropriate. Otherwise, what ever you decide you personally like aesthetically is fine.
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cortlander

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Re: Margins for a 17 x 22 paper
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2023, 02:03:19 pm »

I have standardized on a 1" white border around the satin finish print.  I then frame, now with no glazing, using 1 1/4 inch satin black frames.  (The prints are dry mounted and sprayed with acrylic that water proofs them.)

All of the commercial frames in our house that came with matting that match the frame color/finish of my framed photos on the wall have more like 2" of white matte board showing.  (My wife prefers that larger amount of border.)

So, I think it's very subjective.  I'd guess the middle of that bell curve of preferences is closer to 2" than to my personal preference of 1" of white around the image.

FWIW

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks Paul. Nice B&W photographs on your site.
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cortlander

cortlander

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Re: Margins for a 17 x 22 paper
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2023, 02:07:33 pm »

The  wide margins for "archival" prints were origiinally done to protect the image. A lot of times, edges of prints began to discolor before the central image and were subject to physical abuse. That's why a lot of print makers began using 2" boarders on their prints. These days, if the print is to be overmatted, a 1/2" to 1" boarder is considered appropriate. Otherwise, what ever you decide you personally like aesthetically is fine.

Thank you John. Had no idea on the above. Thank you for enlightening us.

Best,
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cortlander

langier

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Re: Margins for a 17 x 22 paper
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2023, 11:13:29 pm »

I've always have left a "generous" boarder to all my prints, even in the days of silver-gelatin, C-prints, Cibachrome, & dye transfer.

Part of my reasoning is on account of print handling and part was an aesthetic decision. I always thought when the prints were unmounted, they simply looked better with some "air."

Nothing has changed for me in digital, other than the dimensions of the paper: 8.5x11 vs. 8x10; 13x19 vs. 11x14. I still prefer a border though now I have more real estate to leave behind. With the bulk and costs of mounting, I constantly reuse the same frames and matts regularly so many of my prints are simply put on the wall with push-pins, rather than mounting and framing. Cheaper, faster, more efficient for me.

I also use my margins to imprint a brief title/caption and imprint my copyright date + name as part of my print templates.

I use several templates to create my master prints and each has an ample border. Nearly all my work fits on just 3-4 presets, one set for vertical images, the other set for horizontal. It's got the paper profiles and sizing as part of the preset so I can produce portfolio or exhibition prints quite quickly.

In the good old days, like John Nollendorfs said, it was used as a bump & chemical buffer, note taking area from what we once called engravings, and an area to use to handle the print. Though the trend at one time was to produce borderless 8x10-11x14-16x20 prints, my images seldom cropped to those once standard photo paper sizes and I learned to simply compose in-camera and print the full image.

As my work evolved and I worked toward efficiency, I started printing using just a few canned sizes and that's saved me a lot of time, effort, money in that all my matting and framing becomes universal, rather than custom-cut for every crop. For some this is limiting, but once one developed a good compositional habit, it pays off quite well.
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Larry Angier
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cortlander

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Re: Margins for a 17 x 22 paper
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2023, 10:01:47 am »

I've always have left a "generous" boarder to all my prints, even in the days of silver-gelatin, C-prints, Cibachrome, & dye transfer.

Part of my reasoning is on account of print handling and part was an aesthetic decision. I always thought when the prints were unmounted, they simply looked better with some "air."

Nothing has changed for me in digital, other than the dimensions of the paper: 8.5x11 vs. 8x10; 13x19 vs. 11x14. I still prefer a border though now I have more real estate to leave behind. With the bulk and costs of mounting, I constantly reuse the same frames and matts regularly so many of my prints are simply put on the wall with push-pins, rather than mounting and framing. Cheaper, faster, more efficient for me.

I also use my margins to imprint a brief title/caption and imprint my copyright date + name as part of my print templates.

I use several templates to create my master prints and each has an ample border. Nearly all my work fits on just 3-4 presets, one set for vertical images, the other set for horizontal. It's got the paper profiles and sizing as part of the preset so I can produce portfolio or exhibition prints quite quickly.

In the good old days, like John Nollendorfs said, it was used as a bump & chemical buffer, note taking area from what we once called engravings, and an area to use to handle the print. Though the trend at one time was to produce borderless 8x10-11x14-16x20 prints, my images seldom cropped to those once standard photo paper sizes and I learned to simply compose in-camera and print the full image.

As my work evolved and I worked toward efficiency, I started printing using just a few canned sizes and that's saved me a lot of time, effort, money in that all my matting and framing becomes universal, rather than custom-cut for every crop. For some this is limiting, but once one developed a good compositional habit, it pays off quite well.

Thanks for the detailed analysis, Langier. You have a very organized approach. To an extent, I too have settled on certain sizes as far as building frames, mats and self-adhesive gator boards. But loose prints allow a flexibility in borders which is why I have been picking the brains of the pros in this forum.

Best,
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cortlander

aaron125

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Re: Margins for a 17 x 22 paper
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2023, 06:40:56 am »

One thing to make note of is that you should always have your bottom margin somewhat wider than the top margin, such that the image is not centred. It makes for a more pleasing appearance as for reasons I don’t quite remember, it’s just more aesthetically pleasing when the image is offset slightly towards the top. How much is a personal thing that you’ll just have to experiment with I suppose. I’d generally have about 1.5” for the sides, 1” top and 2” bottom for a 17x22 or similar percentages (as in 1/17 for top, 1.5/22 for sides, etc).
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cortlander

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Re: Margins for a 17 x 22 paper
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2023, 12:32:32 pm »

One thing to make note of is that you should always have your bottom margin somewhat wider than the top margin, such that the image is not centred. It makes for a more pleasing appearance as for reasons I don’t quite remember, it’s just more aesthetically pleasing when the image is offset slightly towards the top. How much is a personal thing that you’ll just have to experiment with I suppose. I’d generally have about 1.5” for the sides, 1” top and 2” bottom for a 17x22 or similar percentages (as in 1/17 for top, 1.5/22 for sides, etc).

Yes, thanks, many people would agree with you. Martin Bailey has a spreadsheet and a tool based on similar concepts.
https://martinbaileyphotography.com/mbp-fine-art-border-tools-plugin-for-adobe-photoshop/

"The Magic Formula

After a lot of research around 10 years ago, I came to the conclusion that a good balance for fine art prints was to calculate 10% of the height of the image and use that for all four borders while moving the image up by 3%. This gives 10% side borders, a 7% top border, and a 13% bottom border.
Until now, in the Web Frame module, we always converted these percentages to pixels, as you had to specify the border width in pixels. From version 1.3.6 though, you can now select to adjust the border and offset as a percentage, so selecting 10% will give you a border which is 10% of the width of the image, and the offset changes to use percent as well, so you can now just move it up by 3% to get this golden ratio."

Martin's spreadsheet is at:
https://martinbaileyphotography.com/print-border-size-calculation-spreadsheet/

Best,
« Last Edit: January 17, 2023, 03:18:52 pm by cortlander »
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cortlander
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