Upcoming changes to the C1 perpetual licence

[Malcolm Payne]

https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/7998068628637-Changes-to-the-way-licensing-updates-and-upgrades-work-FAQ

"There will not be a Capture One 24, instead new tools and features will be released on a rolling basis throughout the year.

New perpetual licences purchased after 1st February 2023 will not receive any feature updates. They will however continue to receive 'bug fixes and optimisations' (e.g. v16.x.x) until a new paid version (v16.x) is released.

Upgrade pricing will no longer be available and will be replaced with a new 'loyalty scheme', details to be announced on February 1, 2023

Holders of perpetual licences purchased prior to February 1, 2023 will receive free updates including all new features and improvements until September 30, 2023."

Do Capture One have a death wish, or what? The comments on their FAQ page are mounting rapidly and are more or less uniformly pretty p****d off.

[Rhossydd]

Do Capture One have a death wish, or what? The comments on their FAQ page are mounting rapidly and are more or less uniformly pretty p****d off.

No surprise. Lots of people jumped ship to CO when Adobe went down the subscription model, they'll be feeling very betrayed now.
Although if they'd watched the upgrade pricing strategies over recent years it might not have been such a shock that CO don't show a lot of loyalty to users.

From what I can see this just makes the Adobe Photography Plan a bargain. CO £24/pcm vs Adobe £10pcm (and a BF deal will get you a year at £6pcm).

The absolute subscription phobics will now have to set their sights lower and start to look at products like DXO or the open source options.

[gazwas]

Well that puts the last nail in the coffin with my relationship with Capture One.

I would happily pay the subscription fee if their track record for robust feature updaters was remotely like those of their competitors.

What a stupid move and refuse to pay for big features like last years (poor) HDR merge that has not seen any improvements in the last 12 months or in the latest version 23.

[Rhossydd]

last years (poor) HDR merge that has not seen any improvements in the last 12 months or in the latest version 23.

This is Capture One's major issue for me now. All their recent "additions" are either poorly implemented, as well as late, or very limited in appeal outside their niche target market.

[Balafre]

*rats*

Very sad - but the plates have been shifting towards this inevitability. Their release post v21 seemed increasingly less substantial to users and more oriented towards returning annual yield to the owners of C21. They seemed less coordinated across all their public and internal comms - the internal chaos hinted at by the fiasco that publicly they called what was chronologically v13, V20, and insisted it was v20, but the update advice referred to it as v13 and v13.1 etc.
If this is what's visible on the surface, what does it hint at what's beneath??

BUT in fairness it remains a far superior colour manipulation algorithm to anything from Adobe.

[gazwas]

Let’s see what new/improved/overhauled feature gets added between now and 1st Feb 2023 to see the validity of this subscription service to us end users.

[nemophoto]

After using C1 since 2004 (admittedly, on and off at times, depending upon needs and desires), I will say ba-bye to C1 after version 23. I update sometimes every edition, sometimes every other, but with them going the Adobe subscription route, they can say goodbye to me. They are, frankly, stupid.

Virtually everything C1 does, I have one or two other software packages that do the same and many times better. (On a recent shoot, I had to abandon C1 because it couldn't keep up with my shooting. I often had to stop to wait for previews to generate. At one point I was up to almost 400 previews to be generated and it took 4-5 minutes to catch up so I could start shooting again.) I tend to use C1 tethered more for product shoots where it's not stressed by speed. I generally dislike the skin tones I get compared to LR. One of the best features is its sharpening compared to LR. For tethering, I actually prefer Smart Shooter.

So, after a long relationship, it appears to be time for a divorce.

[tcphoto1]

Since transitioning to C1 in the mid 90's, I've used your software professionally on Commercial shoots and have had a great experience. Unfortunately, due to this policy change I believe that v23 will be the end of our relationship and I will either try to use the Lightroom included in my Adobe subscription at $9.99 a month or someone will fill the upcoming vacuum from dissatisfied C1 users. We had a good run but all good things must come to an end, I trust this is the result of the new ownership group and their desire to generate a higher yield on their investment.

[nemophoto]

...I trust this is the result of the new ownership group and their desire to generate a higher yield on their investment.

Very interesting. I never realized P1/C1 had been purchased -- apparently back in 2019. I think your assessment is a good one. Many of these companies are looking at Adobe and thinking "Hmmm. Seems like a good idea. It worked for them." However, most companies aren't Adobe. C1 is not so indispensable compared to Photoshop et al. Depending on what and how you shoot, Lightroom isn't fabulous (for me) for tethered work, but it will certainly work for many people. I think C1 will find a lot of photogs jumping ship. One company like Adobe and the subscription plan is more than enough (too many!).

[myotis]

Very interesting. I never realized P1/C1 had been purchased -- apparently back in 2019. I think your assessment is a good one.

Phase One was 60% owned by Silverfleet (A British investment company) since 2014.  In 2019 they sold their share to the Danish Investment company Axcel, who now apparently own 56% of the company. The remainder, as implied, by the C1 CEO in an interview, is employee owned, and back into 100% Danish ownership.

It's interesting to say what SilverFleet has to say about Phase One.

https://www.silverfleetcapital.com/our-portfolio/investments/phase-one/

[Rhossydd]

It's interesting to say what SilverFleet has to say about Phase One.
https://www.silverfleetcapital.com/our-portfolio/investments/phase-one/

"moved to a subscription model, offering customers access to updates and increasing the likelihood of customer loyalty, improving stickiness, lifetime value per customer,"

I wonder how that will work out ? I guess they don't read photo forums.

[myotis]

"moved to a subscription model, offering customers access to updates and increasing the likelihood of customer loyalty, improving stickiness, lifetime value per customer,"

I wonder how that will work out ? I guess they don't read photo forums.

We know how it worked out, as Silverfleet, made a lot of money when they sold their share to Axcel in 2019.

[nemophoto]

"moved to a subscription model, offering customers access to updates and increasing the likelihood of customer loyalty, improving stickiness, lifetime value per customer,"

I wonder how that will work out ? I guess they don't read photo forums.

The subscription model sucks, in my opinion. For all but Adobe, I drop anything that works on that model. For the amount I use C1, I'll happily use it for years without noticing it hasn't updated. The one plus on a PC is I have a handful of programs that are 10+ years old, chugging along, doing what they are supposed to do.

[Rhossydd]

We know how it worked out, as Silverfleet, made a lot of money when they sold their share to Axcel in 2019.

Maybe they did read the forums ;-)

[myotis]

Maybe they did read the forums ;-)

Maybe :-). but  I doubt it.

[UnfamiliarLight]

I'm not sure this new system is really an end to perpetual licenses. The current setup allows perpetual license holders to get updates for a year. The new system means they get updates for bug fixes for a few months. In both the old and the new they get to keep using their perpetual license for as long as they want - which is the definition of perpetual.

I skipped v21 and used my v20 for over a year before moving to v22. I picked up v23 pretty much right away since it had things I wanted. Going forward I'll keep using v23 until sometime in 2024 or 2025 depending on when they add enough that I want to upgrade. So, the difference is going to be pretty minor I think.

Where things will get interesting is in the pricing of the upgrades. Honestly that will just factor into my decision of is it worth an upgrade or not. If the price is reasonable I'll go earlier if its close to full price then I'll be waiting for a lot to be added before buying again.

As long as I can have a perpetual license and can upgrade when I choose to I'll likely stay with C1. If either of that changes then I'll be out. I don't mind paying for subscriptions for services but sovereign apps are not a service so I will not be paying for my photo editing software that way.

[EricWHiss]

I have files from multiple cameras over the years and not all of them work with C1.  Also I don't use C1 to finish images out or for that matter for printing or cataloging.   I typically upgrade C1 every 2nd or 3rd update.   C1 isn't good enough to be my single processor since it doesn't take all files or is as good as photoshop for editing, and it's not good enough for cataloging as other options.   What it was good for was RAW conversion.    I don't think C1 is going to suddenly be better for these tasks than the competition and suddenly start to work with my Hasselblad files or other cameras that it doesn't,  so it isn't going to gain broader acceptance as a forced subscription model - they will probably lose business.   There are many open source RAW converters that are very good and also free.   A forced subscription works for Adobe Photoshop since it is very broad and deep, but C1 just isn't there as a universal RAW processor.    I may continue to use C1 if they still offer a free license for use with their digital backs, but otherwise oh well bye bye.

[Ferp]

I'm not sure this new system is really an end to perpetual licenses. The current setup allows perpetual license holders to get updates for a year. The new system means they get updates for bug fixes for a few months. In both the old and the new they get to keep using their perpetual license for as long as they want - which is the definition of perpetual.

I suspect this is probably right.  This is the Microsoft model rather than the Adobe model.  MS push you towards their rental model, but last I looked you could still buy perpetual copies of Office programs.  But no updates and no upgrade options.  I bought a copy of Word on this basis.  If I ever want a later version, I'd have to buy it again. 

Given the recent price of C1 upgrades and the fairly limited new features each time, it may make economic sense to buy C1 every four or so years, although that depends on the yet-to-be-revealed pricing structure.

[Rhossydd]

MS push you towards their rental model,

A somewhat different proposition. The raw convertors need to regularly have updates for new cameras and lenses. Plus they've still evolving with better features that have wide appeal.
The office applications only need updates for major OS changes and really are feature complete now.