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Author Topic: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.  (Read 823 times)

dgberg

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Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« on: August 02, 2022, 11:58:40 am »

I have 300 8x10 images with 1" white border on all 4 sides. I need to print trim marks on the 10x12 total size to make these easier to trim.
Have never done this before in Lightroom and will be using a Rotatrim if that makes any difference.
I have a half dozen other software programs if someone uses something better. Has to be an easier way.

On another note I looked at Image Prints "Cut it Out" but they killed it dead with the price point. $295 for the Cut it Out but to make it work they force you to buy the Black Rip version for $2595 for a 44" printer.
That comes to all but $3000 for the capability to cut the prints out on my Graphtec. No need to pay that kind of money for the half dozen profiles I need.
What a shame, such potential.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 12:52:37 pm by dgberg »
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MichaelKoerner

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2022, 12:30:21 pm »

Hi Dan,
I find Qimage's handling of cutting marks better than LR's, as they are more flexible to define and better visible on prints, imho.

About Graphtec: It's free Illustrator-Plugin "Cutting Madter" can be tweaked for such use. Downside: Needs quite a lot of paper margins.

dgberg

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2022, 12:55:36 pm »

Thanks Michael.
I have AI and Cutting Master plugin connected to my s80600 if I only knew how to use it. So much to learn, so little time.
Would be great to print with registration marks and cut out on the Graphtec.

Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2022, 01:11:05 pm »

Thanks Michael.
I have AI and Cutting Master plugin connected to my s80600 if I only knew how to use it. So much to learn, so little time.
Would be great to print with registration marks and cut out on the Graphtec.

Dan, with Qimage Ultimate I always use the Corner Marks. The advantage is that up to the last cut the Marks remain visible with for example a Rotatrim cutter.  If framed afterwards the cutting can be done on the Mark lines themselves. If the print goes unframed I add a 0,5mm border and the Marks are shifted that amount and I cut Just within the Marks. No Marks visible after cutting. This kind of Marks give the least paper waste as well.

Ernst, op de lei getypt.
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dgberg

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2022, 03:06:57 pm »

I have the Qimage Mac version. Do you know if it is included?
Out for the rest of the day but will look from my end tomorrow.
Thank you.

virojarvi

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2022, 03:32:33 pm »

Qimage One has cut marks too, but you can only specify symmetrical borders which should be fine for you.

Timo
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digitaldog

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2022, 03:32:45 pm »

I have the Qimage Mac version. Do you know if it is included?
You can select whether to print cut marks (crop marks or guide lines).
https://www.binartem.com/q1machelp/
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Richard.Wills

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2022, 03:37:20 pm »

For LR and CM, you can set up a master file in LR, say a 4x5 grid os 10x12" images with a 1/8th gap between them (assuming you've got a 44" or bigger Graphtec). This gives apprx 41x61 print>cut area. Paper sizesize in LR 44x47ish. Print to jpeg, then take jpeg into illustrator, and draw boxes for the cutting lines around the 10x12's. Add crop marks in CM. Discard the images in in the master file, so you only have the crop marks on the canvas. Save this as a jpeg, and use it as a graphical identity plate in the lightroom print module.

Select sets of 20 (or what ever template you build) of 10x8 files, and print to jpeg. Use the "master file" in illy call up the cut path, and to read the crop marks

If I've remembered this correctly, this should allow you to print sheets of images that you can then cut in Il>CM. I've done this a few times with vinyl jobs, contour cutting, not perf, where I've had to make many multiple sets with differing images

For only 300, if you're not running a rip, I'd make an identity plate with internal cut corners, and gang up as above, without the the illustrator > graphtec part. Then trim into strips with a scalpel, and onto the rotatrim. Depends on the paper being used. I'd consider doing this on 36" rolls, just to help the accuracy of the cross cuts, before sliding down the rotatrim fence.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 03:40:21 pm by Richard.Wills »
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dgberg

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2022, 09:13:24 pm »

Good stuff. I have some learning to do. If I do’t figure it out for this batch I hope to have it down before they order again.

Fred Salamon

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2022, 12:39:48 am »

In the Lightroom Print Module go to Layout and set your margins then go to Page>Page Options>Crop Marks
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dgberg

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2022, 10:16:58 am »

I tried that and it did not work. It puts the marks around the 8x10 image but I need it around the image and a 1" white border totally 10x12"
Unless I am missing something?

digitaldog

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2022, 03:35:18 pm »

I tried that and it did not work. It puts the marks around the 8x10 image but I need it around the image and a 1" white border totally 10x12"
Unless I am missing something?
But didn't you already add the 1-inch border around the image?
Quote
I have 300 8x10 images with 1" white border on all 4 sides. I need to print trim marks on the 10x12 total size to make these easier to trim.
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tastar

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2022, 10:33:59 pm »

I would make a master image in Photoshop with cut marks in place - for example a sheet that is 44 inches wide x 13 inches high to print 4 images up, etc. - depending on the size stock that you are going to use. I would then add the cut marks on the background layer in Photoshop, and save the master image. And, using guide lines in Photoshop, paste the images to be printed on different layers (with the cut marks on the background layer), and save each 4-up set or print the 4-up set, delete the images and paste in 4 new ones, and repeat 75 times (or do them 8-up and repeat 37.5 times). It would take less time to add 4 new images than it would take to print them, so it should go pretty quickly.

Sounds like a lot of fun!

Tony
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dgberg

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2022, 07:21:25 am »

No but I have been working on it.
I crop my image in Lightroom to exactly 8x10. Edit in Photoshop to add my 1" white border under canvas size.
If you look at the image size it is no longer 8x10 which means I will not end up with a 10x12 after adding the white border.
I am going to recrop the image again in photoshop to see if I get a true 8x10 this time. The question is, why doesn't Photoshop read my 8x10 Lightroom crop?

mcbroomf

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2022, 08:03:27 am »

The size of an image in inches depends on the PPI chosen (as of course you know).  If you set up your crop tool for an 8x10 crop in inches, maybe you typo'd the PPI value (next to the px/in box) from your normal print PPI.  I would go back to the original before crop and try it again.  If it comes out as 8x10 properly that was probably it.

Edit : Sorry just realized you cropped in LR not PS.  In the Export window in LR you need to choose the correct # of pixels for your print at your PPI.  If you print at 300 PPI for example I would choose 3000 pixels on the Long Edge.  Maybe you typo'd there?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 08:16:02 am by mcbroomf »
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dgberg

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2022, 10:14:45 am »

I got it to crop 8x10 in photoshop and added a 1" white border in Photoshop. (It truly looks 1")
Measured it back in Lightroom to confirm 8x10" on an 10x12" paper and it is off. (Width only)

I have never exported it from Lightroom to this point.
I right clicked in Lightroom and then edit in Photoshop.  After processing I closed it in photoshop and it went back to Lightroom. Will be printing directly from Lightroom so it never gets exported.

mcbroomf

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2022, 10:30:21 am »

LR does not know inches in the Develop mode, so when you Edit In PS it's just opening the pixels you cropped to, so your 8x10 crop ratio is unlikely to be exactly 8"x10".  The image you showed was an 8x10 aspect ratio, just a little off from 8" x 10" so would need resizing in PS for your PPI before adding the 1" border.

But if you are still seeing weird things I would look at the # of pixels on both sides at 4 points during processing to find out what is going on;

After your 8x10 crop in LR
After opening in PS
After resizing canvas and applying 1" border in PS
After saving and opening again in LR

Are you saying the width is off in the Print module of LR?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 10:35:39 am by mcbroomf »
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2022, 10:58:55 am »

I have the Qimage Mac version. Do you know if it is included?
Out for the rest of the day but will look from my end tomorrow.
Thank you.

AFAIK what I see in the updates list for the Mac version and the Youtube videos it is quite similar to Qimage Ultimate. Print size of the image is set in mm or inch, you add a border size upon that size also in mm or inch, you add the Corner Mark setting (that exists since 2019  for Mac where the Windows version got it in 2022). There is no need to bother with PPI as Qimage does that for you (and good).

With normal Cutting Marks as used in the graphic industry to cut reams of printed paper it has sense to use marks that start slightly outwards the corner to cut. The sides of the guillotine cutter are exactly perpendicular so you get nice 90 degrees corners etc when the paper stack is turned. Two sides can be cut with visual control on the cutting marks, the opposite sides are cut with sizes indicated on the cutter's display. The Cutting Marks start slightly outwards to compensate for paper that became a bit smaller in the printing process etc. All that is programmed on modern machines.

With a Rotatrim your first cut will already remove two normal Cutting Marks, you then have to rely on the cutter sides to be precise 90 degrees to get the rest done.  It is way easier to use Corner Marks that are exactly sitting on the corners of the end product. They guide you up to the last cut. If you do not want to see them after the cutting then add 0.5mm to the border you added and cut just within them.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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dgberg

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2022, 11:31:39 am »

LR does not know inches in the Develop mode, so when you Edit In PS it's just opening the pixels you cropped to, so your 8x10 crop ratio is unlikely to be exactly 8"x10".  The image you showed was an 8x10 aspect ratio, just a little off from 8" x 10" so would need resizing in PS for your PPI before adding the 1" border.

But if you are still seeing weird things I would look at the # of pixels on both sides at 4 points during processing to find out what is going on;

After your 8x10 crop in LR
After opening in PS
After resizing canvas and applying 1" border in PS
After saving and opening again in LR

Are you saying the width is off in the Print module of LR?

Yes the width is shorter than 12"
Now you really have me scratching my head. I have been cropping using inches for the past 15 years. Just did a batch of 30x40's that were all off. Recropped them to 30x40" and they print exactly to the set crop in inches.
The thing that does change when cropping smaller is the native resolution drops/changes. But I don't care about that. I need an exact printed dimension in inches and it has always worked.

digitaldog

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Re: Need help with print trim marks outside the image boundery.
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2022, 12:22:29 pm »

In LR's print module, the key is making sure you configure the template and size are what you desire exactly keeping the Margins in Layout in mind. With the Show Guides checkboxes on, you'll see the exact size in the upper left corner along with PPI calculated based upon the image in total.
I haven't tested this but what appears to be necessary is making the 8x10 crop in Photoshop exactly as you wish and then adding a 1-inch border. Then ensuring that you get the size seen in the upper left to the size you wish (10x12 or whatever). I can't imagine why that wouldn't work.
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