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Author Topic: Gamut comparison HP Z3200 vs Z3100 (chromatic red)  (Read 354 times)

Kyle D Jackson

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Gamut comparison HP Z3200 vs Z3100 (chromatic red)
« on: July 07, 2022, 03:36:16 pm »

Hi all, I'm a long time HP Z3100ps GP owner, and I'm tempted by some of the used Z3200 for-sale ads I see occasionally. I've long known that the HP73 chromatic red ink is one of the main improvements over the Z3100, but I don't recall ever seeing any actual gamut comparison examples. I've searched around and come up empty. Can anyone point me to any examples comparing the output gamut of the Z3200 to the Z3100 please?

Thanks so much, cheers!
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Kyle D Jackson
Ottawa, Canada
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kers

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Re: Gamut comparison HP Z3200 vs Z3100 (chromatic red)
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2022, 03:24:34 am »

Hi all, I'm a long time HP Z3100ps GP owner, and I'm tempted by some of the used Z3200 for-sale ads I see occasionally. I've long known that the HP73 chromatic red ink is one of the main improvements over the Z3100, but I don't recall ever seeing any actual gamut comparison examples. I've searched around and come up empty. Can anyone point me to any examples comparing the output gamut of the Z3200 to the Z3100 please?

Thanks so much, cheers!

Red is much more intense on matte paper with the Z3200... you can see it easely with your eyes no spectro needed. ( i have both)
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Pieter Kers
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Kyle D Jackson

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Re: Gamut comparison HP Z3200 vs Z3100 (chromatic red)
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2022, 07:53:16 am »

Hi kers, yes I'm aware the chromatic red has more gamut, because there are many posts and sources of info that simply say "it's better" without any visual examples. That's why I'm asking if anyone here can point me to any gamut plots or example prints that actually *show* this difference. This helps me evaluate whether the difference is worth it to me to replace my Z3100 with a Z3200 (because every used printer is usually in need of costly repairs).

Thanks!
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Kyle D Jackson
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deanwork

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Re: Gamut comparison HP Z3200 vs Z3100 (chromatic red)
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2022, 02:48:54 pm »

Yea, I have them both, one a fully restored Z3100 and one of the last Z3200s.  If you print on gloss type papers itís a non issue, and if you print on any matte media itís a big difference. Like he said you donít need gamut plots , itís obvious .  I doubt anyone ever bothered plotting gamut comparison. All the other inks are exactly the same.


quote author=Kyle D Jackson link=topic=141080.msg1242540#msg1242540 date=1657281196]
Hi kers, yes I'm aware the chromatic red has more gamut, because there are many posts and sources of info that simply say "it's better" without any visual examples. That's why I'm asking if anyone here can point me to any gamut plots or example prints that actually *show* this difference. This helps me evaluate whether the difference is worth it to me to replace my Z3100 with a Z3200 (because every used printer is usually in need of costly repairs).

Thanks!
[/quote]
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Kyle D Jackson

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Re: Gamut comparison HP Z3200 vs Z3100 (chromatic red)
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2022, 03:59:05 pm »

Yea, I have them both, one a fully restored Z3100 and one of the last Z3200s.  If you print on gloss type papers itís a non issue, and if you print on any matte media itís a big difference. Like he said you donít need gamut plots , itís obvious .  I doubt anyone ever bothered plotting gamut comparison. All the other inks are exactly the same.

I guess it is what it is, I'm just surprised that after all the noise that was made about the z3100's shortcomings, and the arrival of the z3200 specifically to address it, that visual examples of the differences are so scarce to find online. Not even anything from HP, even tho they issued some "damage control" tech/white papers for the z3100 before the z3200 was available. But I realize all that's just ancient history now.

Just realizing now that maybe the most effective way for me to "preview" the difference would be to simply grab some z3200 ICC profiles and compare them directly with z3100 files. Or for that matter I could just softproof some images with z3200 profiles..., Ugh can't believe I didn't think of that before! Been a longggg week, derppp    :-X

Thanks anyway!
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Kyle D Jackson
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Kyle D Jackson

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Re: Gamut comparison HP Z3200 vs Z3100 (chromatic red)
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2022, 12:56:54 pm »

Just an update, I softproofed with some ICC profiles I found online to compare the difference for some of my images. I didn't have very much time because there was a nationwide internet outage right before I had to leave on a cross country trip, so my checks were very limited, but still enough that I could appreciate the difference between the z3100 and z3200.

I grabbed ICC profiles for both printers from Hahnemuhle for their photo rag paper (both reg and ultra smooth). Note I don't actually use those papers, they were simply the first ICC profiles I could find online in the few minutes I had available to do this that were available for both printers.

The ultra smooth did not show a large difference, but the regular photo rag showed a quite a bit. Generally a lot more contrast, detail, and less colour blocking in the reds.

At the same time, the z3200 profile actually showed a loss of gamut in the greens/yellows compared to the z3100. I recall reading something a while ago that indicated that the increased red gamut of the z3200 did not come for free, that there was some coverage lost elsewhere from the z3100 gamut, a bit of a contrast tradeoff. For my images the reds are more important, though I could see a landscape photographer might feel otherwise.

Again, these were rushed comparisons in about 15 mins with only a couple profiles from one paper supplier. I wish I had more time to compare. Also I'm aware that these softproof comparisons are only as good as the quality of the ICC profiles -- a bad profile can make a good printer look bad. I don't know anything about the quality of Hahnemuhle's default profiles, or when they were created (didn't have time to check). I mean their z3100 profile could be very very old and lower quality than their z3200 profile, for example.

Anyhow I'm keeping fingers crossed that the improvement in reds I saw with this quick softproof check is indicative what I will actually get, and that any "loss" in other areas of the gamut are minimal.





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Kyle D Jackson
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deanwork

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Re: Gamut comparison HP Z3200 vs Z3100 (chromatic red)
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2022, 10:04:27 am »

Donít trust Hah. profiles, make your own. There is no difference in yellow and green. They are the same inks!




Just an update, I softproofed with some ICC profiles I found online to compare the difference for some of my images. I didn't have very much time because there was a nationwide internet outage right before I had to leave on a cross country trip, so my checks were very limited, but still enough that I could appreciate the difference between the z3100 and z3200.

I grabbed ICC profiles for both printers from Hahnemuhle for their photo rag paper (both reg and ultra smooth). Note I don't actually use those papers, they were simply the first ICC profiles I could find online in the few minutes I had available to do this that were available for both printers.

The ultra smooth did not show a large difference, but the regular photo rag showed a quite a bit. Generally a lot more contrast, detail, and less colour blocking in the reds.

At the same time, the z3200 profile actually showed a loss of gamut in the greens/yellows compared to the z3100. I recall reading something a while ago that indicated that the increased red gamut of the z3200 did not come for free, that there was some coverage lost elsewhere from the z3100 gamut, a bit of a contrast tradeoff. For my images the reds are more important, though I could see a landscape photographer might feel otherwise.

Again, these were rushed comparisons in about 15 mins with only a couple profiles from one paper supplier. I wish I had more time to compare. Also I'm aware that these softproof comparisons are only as good as the quality of the ICC profiles -- a bad profile can make a good printer look bad. I don't know anything about the quality of Hahnemuhle's default profiles, or when they were created (didn't have time to check). I mean their z3100 profile could be very very old and lower quality than their z3200 profile, for example.

Anyhow I'm keeping fingers crossed that the improvement in reds I saw with this quick softproof check is indicative what I will actually get, and that any "loss" in other areas of the gamut are minimal.
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Kyle D Jackson

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Re: Gamut comparison HP Z3200 vs Z3100 (chromatic red)
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2022, 10:24:55 am »

Donít trust Hah. profiles, make your own. There is no difference in yellow and green. They are the same inks!

Yes of course, but remember the context here. This is to softproof the difference between z3100 and z3200 *before* I buy the z3200. Don't have the printer, so can't make the profiles, and had to rely on existing profiles I could find online.

Regarding the gamut, yes they are the same inks, however there is an older thread on here that mentions the z3200 changed the gamut by more than just the new red ink, that there was some tradeoff tuning elsehwere in the gamut that resulted in different coverage (sometimes reduced) for some of the other colours/levels as well. I'll see if I can find it again...

In any case, I already made my decision and bought the used z3200 I found, and am currently restoring it (covered in another thread).

Cheers

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Kyle D Jackson
Ottawa, Canada
Lone Leaf Photography
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