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Author Topic: MacOS and NEC Spectraview  (Read 1690 times)

Chris Kern

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MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« on: March 28, 2022, 05:45:56 pm »

I just stumbled across this paragraph in the release notes for NEC Spectraview 1.1.42:

Quote
This build of SpectraView is being released as a temporary workaround for compatibility issues occurring on the new M1 based Macs such as the MacBook and Mac mini. As of at least macOS 11.2, the OS does not provide full information about the connected display monitors to applications. This prevents SpectraView from being able to detect displays correctly. This special build avoids this issue by making certain assumptions about the displays in order to detect and communicate with them. It is intended as a temporary solution until Apple fixes the issues in a future macOS update, and it may not work in all cases. Only display models with a USB connection are supported. Older NEC display models without a USB connection will likely never be supported on M1 based Macs.

This apparently is a workaround for a MacOS bug.

I'm still running MacOS 11 on my 2013 Mac Pro primary desktop (and several other Apple machines), but I have a Mac Studio system on order which will ship with MacOS 12 and I wonder whether anyone out there knows whether this problem has been resolved in the more recent release.

Sounds like either way, those of us with NEC monitors will need to use both a video cable and a USB cable for data to calibrate the displays.  Not exactly a deal-breaker, but I was hoping to minimize the number of cables I had to deal with when I install the new box.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2022, 10:29:07 am by Chris Kern »
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TechTalk

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2022, 09:48:23 pm »

This apparently is a workaround for a MacOS bug.

NEC asserts there are "compatibility issues" with "new M1 based Macs" and SpectraView II for which they issued a "temporary solution" 8 months ago "until Apple fixes the issues in a future macOS update". NEC states compatibility issues have existed since "at least macOS 11.2" and that M1 users require the "special build" version. The SpectraView II "special build" version with the addition of a USB cable appears to work with M1 macs based on what I've seen reported by users on forums.

Meanwhile Apple has sailed thru several macOS 11 (Big Sur) versions and is well into macOS 12 (Monterey). Software compatible with NEC monitors for hardware calibration like basICColor display 6 or comparable in function like Eizo ColorNavigator 7 are fully compatible with both Intel and M1 Macs and macOS versions Catalina/ Big Sur/ Monterey. They have updated their software with new versions, but haven't issued "special build" versions as a "temporary solution" for some macOS bug that they're waiting for Apple to fix. Frankly, at this point, I'm not sure there is, or was, a bug to be fixed.

I don't expect that you'll have any issues with your new system, NEC monitor, and the version of SpectraView II for which you linked the release notes. Like a number of others, I already have an NEC monitor (or two) along with a SpectraView II license. For a variety of reasons, If I were purchasing calibration/profiling software for an NEC monitor today, I would consider basICColor display 6 or display 6 Pro.

Reviews by Mark D Segal of the standard and pro versions are below...

https://photopxl.com/basiccolor-display-6-monitor-profiling-software

https://photopxl.com/basiccolor-display-6-pro
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kers

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2022, 07:54:15 am »

The problem i mostly have to deal with when jumping from a much older system is email.

Sometimes i have to go to move to an in-between system first to get the imail imported the right way in the new system...
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ned

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2022, 10:16:18 pm »

I upgraded to a Mac Studio and an NEC PA311D which arrived today. Connected a USB cable from the monitor to the back of the Mac studio and made sure that I selected the USB input that matches the display input from the mac. My connection from the Mac to the display is HDMI to HDMI. Won't communicate with the monitor :-\. It looks like a call to NEC is in order.
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degrub

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2022, 10:47:41 pm »

Won’t communicate across usb with spectraview or won’t display ?

Display issues-
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=140541.0

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hubell

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2022, 11:01:31 pm »

I upgraded to a Mac Studio and an NEC PA311D which arrived today. Connected a USB cable from the monitor to the back of the Mac studio and made sure that I selected the USB input that matches the display input from the mac. My connection from the Mac to the display is HDMI to HDMI. Won't communicate with the monitor :-\. It looks like a call to NEC is in order.

I have a Mac Studio that I have been trying to connect to my NEC 4K PA322UHD monitor. I tried several USB-C to DisplayPort cables so far, and I could not get the monitor to display at the native resolution of 3840x2160. It will only operate at 1920x1080. I did purchase an expensive high speed HDMI to HDMI cable, and that does work with the monitor to display at 3840x2160. However, NEC (and TechTalk) recommend against using HDMI cables, stating that it will lead to banding in files and inaccurate color. Apple Tech support told me today that only HDMI connections can be used with the Mac Studio and 4k monitors. So far, it looks like there is no great solution. The only option may be to buy an Apple Studio Display or an XDR Pro Display. For color critical photo editing, these displays apparently have their own set of issues.
I was able to use the M1 version of the Spectraview software to calibrate and profile my monitor.
I am not sure how you are trying to connect your Mac to the NEC monitor. You do need a video feed from the computer to the monitor, but I do not believe you need a USB connection unless you are trying to do a calibration and profile with your colorimeter. I know I only hook up a USB connection at that time.

ned

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2022, 11:06:00 pm »

Won’t communicate across usb with spectraview or won’t display ?

Display issues-
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=140541.0

Spectraview does not see the monitor. I downloaded the latest build which is supposed to have the workaround.
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ned

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2022, 01:20:39 pm »

Spectraview does not see the monitor. I downloaded the latest build which is supposed to have the workaround.

Oops, I actually didn't download the special build for the M1. I didn't realize that download was a few rows down. Doing so got me a little farther, Spectra does finally detect the monitor and even says (USB) but it then fails to communicate with the monitor. Working with NEC on this issue.
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TechTalk

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2022, 01:56:28 pm »

However, NEC (and TechTalk) recommend against using HDMI cables, stating that it will lead to banding in files and inaccurate color.

Apple, NEC, and Eizo recommend in their published connection guides using USB-C to DisplayPort cables when DisplayPort monitors are connected to a Mac Studio computer. NEC and Eizo do not recommend using HDMI cables with current Mac systems. The HDMI issue predates Apple silicon and M1 macs and is an operating system default that has existed for the past few years and macOS versions. What happens is that when an HDMI connection is detected the OS may default to outputting video signals using Limited Range YUV with Y (luminance) limited to 16-235 and UV (chroma) limited to 16-240 instead of full range RGB 0-255 values. This why color accuracy and banding issues may be seen with HDMI. Basically the operating system assumes that you want to output broadcast video content to a TV display instead of RGB content to a computer monitor.

* Links to Apple, NEC, and Eizo recommendations can be found in this previous post in another thread.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 03:43:59 pm by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2022, 03:06:01 pm »

The only option may be to buy an Apple Studio Display or an XDR Pro Display. For color critical photo editing, these displays apparently have their own set of issues.

Current Apple displays are not exactly user friendly for those that want to calibrate and profile their monitors. Here's the Apple way to calibrate the XDR using the Apple Pro Display XDR Calibrator 1.0 software with a list of compatible measuring instruments with starting prices from about $15,000 and up. The method for the Apple Studio Display is to "use your in-house spectroradiometer to measure" and then enter the white point x y and luminance measured and target values manually into boxes.

There are monitors, other than what Apple offers, that operate correctly with M1 Macs and macOS. Clearly, some monitor models have major issues when connected to M1 mac hardware, but Apple is not your only choice for a new monitor. For color critical photo and video editing, Eizo seems to have been successful in navigating the choppy waters of Apple's hardware and operating system changes with their current monitors and software. There are other choices as well in new monitors that are compatible. Clearly, some monitors which are currently being sold new, as well as discontinued legacy models, seem to be a model by model or case by case connection adventure.
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hubell

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2022, 05:27:44 pm »

Current Apple displays are not exactly user friendly for those that want to calibrate and profile their monitors. Here's the Apple way to calibrate the XDR using the Apple Pro Display XDR Calibrator 1.0 software with a list of compatible measuring instruments with starting prices from about $15,000 and up. The method for the Apple Studio Display is to "use your in-house spectroradiometer to measure" and then enter the white point x y and luminance measured and target values manually into boxes.

There are monitors, other than what Apple offers, that operate correctly with M1 Macs and macOS. Clearly, some monitor models have major issues when connected to M1 mac hardware, but Apple is not your only choice for a new monitor. For color critical photo and video editing, Eizo seems to have been successful in navigating the choppy waters of Apple's hardware and operating system changes with their current monitors and software. There are other choices as well in new monitors that are compatible. Clearly, some monitors which are currently being sold new, as well as discontinued legacy models, seem to be a model by model or case by case connection adventure.

So, I need to buy an XDR Pro display with stand for $6k and a spectroradiometer for $15k. No problem. $21k, because Apple's OS doesn't allow me to hook up my PA322. Brilliant move for Apple! [G]
What I would like to know is whether anyone has successfully attached a Mac Studio running Monterey 12.3.1 to an NEC PA322 or 311D or an EIZO CG319x, using a USB-C to Displayport cable, with the monitor outputting to the native resolution.  NED has a new PA311D. Has he tried to hook his Mac Studio using a USB-C to Displayport cable or a USB-C to USB-C cable?
I spent three hours on the phone today with Apple Support. They are very well meaning but they couldn't trouble shoot it. They are going to elevate now to the Engineering Dept. or something like that and will call me back on Saturday.

Please be assured that I really do appreciate you trying to help here.

ned

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2022, 07:29:14 pm »

So, I need to buy an XDR Pro display with stand for $6k and a spectroradiometer for $15k. No problem. $21k, because Apple's OS doesn't allow me to hook up my PA322. Brilliant move for Apple! [G]
What I would like to know is whether anyone has successfully attached a Mac Studio running Monterey 12.3.1 to an NEC PA322 or 311D or an EIZO CG319x, using a USB-C to Displayport cable, with the monitor outputting to the native resolution.  NED has a new PA311D. Has he tried to hook his Mac Studio using a USB-C to Displayport cable or a USB-C to USB-C cable?
I spent three hours on the phone today with Apple Support. They are very well meaning but they couldn't trouble shoot it. They are going to elevate now to the Engineering Dept. or something like that and will call me back on Saturday.

Please be assured that I really do appreciate you trying to help here.

My small victory today was getting Spectraview to communicate to the monitor, and I had a successful calibration. USB A from the Mac Studio to USB A on the 311D does not work, USB C does. NEC is going back to Japan with that information.

I don't have a USB C to display port cable yet, I'm running HDMI - HDMI, but I will have a cable here in a couple of days and will let you know what happens.
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hubell

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2022, 08:41:14 pm »

My small victory today was getting Spectraview to communicate to the monitor, and I had a successful calibration. USB A from the Mac Studio to USB A on the 311D does not work, USB C does. NEC is going back to Japan with that information.

I don't have a USB C to display port cable yet, I'm running HDMI - HDMI, but I will have a cable here in a couple of days and will let you know what happens.

Thanks, I think you can also connect the PA311D to the Mac Studio through a USB-C to USB-C cable. I believe the PA311D has a USB-C input port.

hubell

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2022, 09:01:03 pm »

Current Apple displays are not exactly user friendly for those that want to calibrate and profile their monitors. Here's the Apple way to calibrate the XDR using the Apple Pro Display XDR Calibrator 1.0 software with a list of compatible measuring instruments with starting prices from about $15,000 and up. The method for the Apple Studio Display is to "use your in-house spectroradiometer to measure" and then enter the white point x y and luminance measured and target values manually into boxes.

There are monitors, other than what Apple offers, that operate correctly with M1 Macs and macOS. Clearly, some monitor models have major issues when connected to M1 mac hardware, but Apple is not your only choice for a new monitor. For color critical photo and video editing, Eizo seems to have been successful in navigating the choppy waters of Apple's hardware and operating system changes with their current monitors and software. There are other choices as well in new monitors that are compatible. Clearly, some monitors which are currently being sold new, as well as discontinued legacy models, seem to be a model by model or case by case connection adventure.

FYI, I was looking at the Eizo CG319X on the B&H site and saw the following statement:

“The ColorEdge CG319X does not support macOS models using the Apple M1 chip.”

ned

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2022, 10:27:50 pm »

Thanks, I think you can also connect the PA311D to the Mac Studio through a USB-C to USB-C cable. I believe the PA311D has a USB-C input port.

Yes, it does, and that is what I had to use to get the Spectraview to communicate to the monitor.
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TechTalk

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Re: MacOS and NEC Spectraview
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2022, 11:10:01 pm »

FYI, I was looking at the Eizo CG319X on the B&H site and saw the following statement:

“The ColorEdge CG319X does not support macOS models using the Apple M1 chip.”

The B&H info needs to be updated. Eizo has tested various models with various Mac M1 computers as well as OS 12 (Monterey). Eizo reports the CG319X is fully functional with the various Mac M1 + OS 12 (Monterey) models tested using a USB-C to DisplayPort cable. HDMI connections are listed as conditionally supported and note the previously discussed color and banding issues.

https://www.eizoglobal.com/support/compatibility/pc/mac/apple-m1

Likewise, ColorNavigator software is compatible with the latest Apple hardware and software. Here's a video giving a photography workflow demonstration of ColorNavigator. The Eizo distributor for the Asia-Pacific region, Eizo APAC has the best application tutorials that I've found on any of the Eizo global sites.

https://www.eizoglobal.com/support/colornavigator 7

You can call Eizo to discuss any questions you might have at (800) 800-5202 ext. 210 (Graphics, Color Management, ColorEdge). I've called them a few times with questions and found them very helpful and cordial.

https://www.eizo.com/contact

You can also talk with the friendly folks at Chromix. They sell Eizo and are also extraordinary color experts.

https://www.chromix.com/about/

You can find an in-depth review of the Eizo CG319X at PRAD.de. It's a German language review, but Google translate works pretty well...

https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/testberichte/test-eizo-cg319x-top-monitor-fuer-dci-4k-content
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