Custom Paper Presets for Epson 9570/7570/900/700: A Mess

[hubell]

The new Epson Surecolor printers have adopted a new way of applying the desired settings for color management in the PS print dialogue box. I thought I had sorted out the way that you create Custom Paper Presets with the Epson Media Installer and then have those "Presets" available in both the Printer Driver in Photoshop and in the Printer itself. Three issues have come up:

1. I created in the EMI a Custom Preset for Canson Infinity Prestige 340, starting with the Epson Baryta template. However, when I look for a Preset at the top of the Printer Settings section in the PS Printer Driver, it does not show up! What is the purpose of the "Preset" that you create in the EMI? Do I still have to create a new Preset in the Printer Settings section in the PS Printer Driver?

2. Canson recommends that you decrease the Color Density setting with the Prestige 340 paper by -15. I tried to edit the Preset in the EMI that I created for the Prestige 340 paper, but there is no section in the editable section for Color Density. Moreover, on the Printer LCD screen, if I select the Custom Paper Preset for the Canson Prestige 340 paper and try to edit it, I get the following message:  "Paper setting in the printer driver is different from paper information registered in the printer. Change paper setting from the application or the driver. For details, see your documentation." What is this all about? And btw, there is NO documentation.

3. So, I thought I would try to use the Epson Print Layout software to see if somehow that clarified things, as this is the newish software that Epson is hyping as simplifying the printing process compared to the PS Driver.  Nope.

4. I still do not understand if I can ignore everything in the Printer Settings on the Printer and just work with the Epson Driver in PS the old way, as I did for 20+ years going back to the Epson 10000. Use  the print driver in PS and ignore the paper listed on the LCD on the printer.  Now, who is in charge here??? The print driver in PS or the Paper Presets in the Printer itself? The Manuals for these printers have zero information about the EMI and how the PS print driver works with the new printers. This is all such a classic example of how things are often changed in the interests of simplicity, only to create a  bigger mess than ever existed. Perhaps this was part of a secret plot to force people to use only Epson papers.

Thanks for any insights here.

[Rand47]

The new Epson Surecolor printers have adopted a new way of applying the desired settings for color management in the PS print dialogue box. I thought I had sorted out the way that you create Custom Paper Presets with the Epson Media Installer and then have those "Presets" available in both the Printer Driver in Photoshop and in the Printer itself. Three issues have come up:

1. I created in the EMI a Custom Preset for Canson Infinity Prestige 340, starting with the Epson Baryta template. However, when I look for a Preset at the top of the Printer Settings section in the PS Printer Driver, it does not show up! What is the purpose of the "Preset" that you create in the EMI? Do I still have to create a new Preset in the Printer Settings section in the PS Printer Driver?

2. Canson recommends that you decrease the Color Density setting with the Prestige 340 paper by -15. I tried to edit the Preset in the EMI that I created for the Prestige 340 paper, but there is no section in the editable section for Color Density. Moreover, on the Printer LCD screen, if I select the Custom Paper Preset for the Canson Prestige 340 paper and try to edit it, I get the following message:  "Paper setting in the printer driver is different from paper information registered in the printer. Change paper setting from the application or the driver. For details, see your documentation." What is this all about? And btw, there is NO documentation.

3. So, I thought I would try to use the Epson Print Layout software to see if somehow that clarified things, as this is the newish software that Epson is hyping as simplifying the printing process compared to the PS Driver.  Nope.

4. I still do not understand if I can ignore everything in the Printer Settings on the Printer and just work with the Epson Driver in PS the old way, as I did for 20+ years going back to the Epson 10000. Use  the print driver in PS and ignore the paper listed on the LCD on the printer.  Now, who is in charge here??? The print driver in PS or the Paper Presets in the Printer itself? The Manuals for these printers have zero information about the EMI and how the PS print driver works with the new printers. This is all such a classic example of how things are often changed in the interests of simplicity, only to create a  bigger mess than ever existed. Perhaps this was part of a secret plot to force people to use only Epson papers.

Thanks for any insights here.

#1.  If you successfully "registered" the created media type in EMI, it "is" in the driver as well as the printer.  BUT, it may not appear in the place you think it should be in the driver's list of papers.  E.g. if in EMI you classified it as a "Fine Art Paper" it may, or may not be in the Fine Art Paper drop-down list in the driver.  (I'm on Windows so YMMV.)  It might be in Photo Paper or anywhere else in the driver.  A bug for sure between EMI and the driver.  This drove me nuts until I stumbled across my new "media type" filed away "somewhere else" in the driver than where I was expecting.  In the Windows version driver (at least) under the Utilities Tab, there is a "Menu Arrangement" button where you can go and reorganize where the paper types show up in the driver.   That might be your issue.  Or, you could have created the media type in EMI and then not successfully "registered it" to the printer.   

#2.  Strangely enough, "Color Density" (ink density) is the only control still remaining in the driver, rather than as part of the media type settings in the printer.  It is under the "Paper Config" button in the Windows driver.   I print from Lightroom Classic because I love its print templates, and I can "store" lowered "Color Density" settings w/ particular paper type, paper size, layout, etc., in the Lightroom Print templates.

#4.  I don't think you can ignore the printer's settings for the paper.  I do know that e.g. if you create a custom media type in EMI and use that paper type when loading the paper and selecting the paper type in the driver.... that if you discover that you want to increase suction, or platen gap or whatever, that if you do it via the printer's LCD menu it will be "sticky" and stay however you modified it "for that paper" until / unless you make subsequent changes.

While I'm now used to, and like the EMI/Driver/Printer relationship (I love being able to just choose "Ilford Gold Fibre Gloss" right in the printer as I load that paper (and know that my settings for that paper are there and recognized), I completely agree with you that Epson is OUT OF THEIR FREAKING MINDS for not providing any kind of documentation, training videos, explanation of relationships between EMI, Printer Menu, and/or Driver settings.  IT IS FLAT OUT INEXCUSABLE.   It took me a long time to figure it all out so that it is "routine"  - and I'm still not 100% certain about a couple of things.   I don't think Epson intends to be arrogant and seemingly uncaring about their userbase, but you sure as heck couldn't tell it from issues like this one.

Best of luck . . .
Rand

[digitaldog]

What “desired settings for color management in the PS print dialogue box”?
There is Photoshop Manages Color; nothing has changed there.

[Rand47]

What “desired settings for color management in the PS print dialogue box”?
There is Photoshop Manages Color; nothing has changed there.

Hi Andrew,

I “think” he meant the various paper parameters in PS, e.g. platen gap, suction, caliper, drying time per pass, etc. and conflated that with “color management” per se.  At least that’s how I took “what he actually meant” in my response above.   Accessing / controlling those items is very different in the new Epson printers.  No longer can be done in the driver. 

Rand

[hubell]

Thanks for your input. Please see my comments below.

#1.  If you successfully "registered" the created media type in EMI, it "is" in the driver as well as the printer.  BUT, it may not appear in the place you think it should be in the driver's list of papers.  E.g. if in EMI you classified it as a "Fine Art Paper" it may, or may not be in the Fine Art Paper drop-down list in the driver.  (I'm on Windows so YMMV.)  It might be in Photo Paper or anywhere else in the driver.  A bug for sure between EMI and the driver.  This drove me nuts until I stumbled across my new "media type" filed away "somewhere else" in the driver than where I was expecting.  In the Windows version driver (at least) under the Utilities Tab, there is a "Menu Arrangement" button where you can go and reorganize where the paper types show up in the driver.   That might be your issue.  Or, you could have created the media type in EMI and then not successfully "registered it" to the printer.   
I was able to successfully register  the created media type from the EMI. It does show up in the PS printer driver under Print Settings/Printer Settings/Media Type.

#2.  Strangely enough, "Color Density" (ink density) is the only control still remaining in the driver, rather than as part of the media type settings in the printer.  It is under the "Paper Config" button in the Windows driver.   I print from Lightroom Classic because I love its print templates, and I can "store" lowered "Color Density" settings w/ particular paper type, paper size, layout, etc., in the Lightroom Print templates.
Agreed, which means that I had to create a new custom Preset for my third party paper by going into Print Settings/Printer Settings/Advanced Media Controls to set the Color Density at -15 and save that as part of my Preset in the PS driver. Ok, now I have created a new Preset in the PS driver that is INCONSISTENT with the settings for the Canson Prestige Paper that I created in the PS driver, because you can't control Color Density in the EMI settings. Moreover, when I try to edit the Media Type Preset on the Printer LCD to adjust the Color Density so it is consistent with what I set in the PS driver, I get the error message I uploaded before. If I ignore the error message and proceed to print, what happens??? Does it follow the -15 reductiuon in Color Density I set in the PS driver??

#4.  I don't think you can ignore the printer's settings for the paper.  I do know that e.g. if you create a custom media type in EMI and use that paper type when loading the paper and selecting the paper type in the driver.... that if you discover that you want to increase suction, or platen gap or whatever, that if you do it via the printer's LCD menu it will be "sticky" and stay however you modified it "for that paper" until / unless you make subsequent changes.
Please see the error message I et if I try to change the settings in the printer itself to match what I did in the PS driver.

While I'm now used to, and like the EMI/Driver/Printer relationship (I love being able to just choose "Ilford Gold Fibre Gloss" right in the printer as I load that paper (and know that my settings for that paper are there and recognized), I completely agree with you that Epson is OUT OF THEIR FREAKING MINDS for not providing any kind of documentation, training videos, explanation of relationships between EMI, Printer Menu, and/or Driver settings.  IT IS FLAT OUT INEXCUSABLE.   It took me a long time to figure it all out so that it is "routine"  - and I'm still not 100% certain about a couple of things.   I don't think Epson intends to be arrogant and seemingly uncaring about their userbase, but you sure as heck couldn't tell it from issues like this one.'
I agree that is not in any way deliberate on Epson's part, they are well intentioned professionals, but it is totally inexcusable to have introduced a whole new workflow that is supposed to make it MUCH simpler to set up the driver to produce properly color managed prints. It's true if you use the Epson Print Layout software with Epson papers like Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper, but that's not the target audience for a 9570/7570 or many users of an Epson 900.


Best of luck . . .
Rand

[hubell]

Hi Andrew,

I “think” he meant the various paper parameters in PS, e.g. platen gap, suction, caliper, drying time per pass, etc. and conflated that with “color management” per se.  At least that’s how I took “what he actually meant” in my response above.   Accessing / controlling those items is very different in the new Epson printers.  No longer can be done in the driver. 

Rand

Yes. Correct.

[bellevuefineart]

I've been trying to wrap my head around this for academic reasons, and to try and better understand the P9570 as I struggle through the learning curve with this printer that I call Epson's dumpster fire. Ultimately I use Imageprint from Colorbyte, so I don't need to know how to print from Photoshop, but there are a lot of important parameters in the EMI and driver that need to be understood.

From what I can see, you could use the ICC profile you want and let Photoshop manage the colors, or you could select "let printer manage colors", but either way you need go into the printer settings anyway and select a paper type, size etc, and then save that as your preset, so you might as well let PS handle the colors now. It's a new way of printing from PS and LR. For years now everyone has recommended letting PS manage the colors at print. But since fine tuning is now only in the EMI and LCD panel settings for things like platen gap, feed adjustment (which is called feed offset now in the EMI), suction, dry time etc, you really need to let the printer manage the colors.

I had to learn this because even though I'm using Imageprint, they had a bug that was not passing information to the printer to override things like feed adjustment, so I had to learn all this and show that their parameters were not getting passed to the driver. I have mixed feelings about moving it to the EMI. I really see no reason why you can't have an EMI manage paper types and pass them to the printer, but still let the driver override those things at print time. Some prints require tweaking, and some problem solving requires tweaking, so putting those settings in the EMI but now allowing the print driver to override them doesn't make sense to me.

I've also found the same issue with the Epson EMI as Canon has with its color management setup, which is similar, and that is that if you have multiple computers printing to one printer, there is no way to use the EMI without constantly overwriting the LCD panel. There is no way to acquire media settings from the printer. The EMI from different computers conflict with each other. So if I go to computer A and download and install settings to the printer, then go to computer B, I have to do it again. For profiles that have updates, there is a "download and install" button. The same is true of Canon. There is no option in the EMI to "acquire media from printer". On each machine you have to "download and install".

I can sit at one computer and remote desktop into two others and see them out of sync. So the computer is not acquiring data from the printer correctly when you start EMI. It's not really bi-directional. The computer sends information to the printer and the printer registers it, but it's certainly not bi-directional as some would suggest.