Covid General discussions

[Robert Roaldi]

Since you read both sides, which side do you think the odds are on how it occurred?  50-50  60-40  70-30??

Why, are you trying to beat some bookie's line?

Asking for odds on this question is preposterous.

[Alan Klein]

Speaking about liberty. I know of one case where a family of 3 was not vaccinated, their little boy picked up the covid virus, then his grandma when she was babysitting was infected by him and brought it home to her husband. He is now in the hospital on ventilator and the situation is very grave.

One of the reasons I haven't seen my new grandson in 8 weeks.  Coincidentally, I was in their area two Saturdays ago and was going to visit but changed my mind.  The next day I came down with a cold which I would have brought to them.  Obviously, my mask and limiting contact with others didn't work because I got that cold.  It could been worse and have been Covid. 

While I understand the point about isolation,  the only country that's doing it completely apparently is China.  They shut down a city of 13 million.  Everyone had to stay home.  In the rest of the world, everyone is doing it less then them to varying degrees.  So which is the right amount?

[Alan Klein]

Why, are you trying to beat some bookie's line?

Asking for odds on this question is preposterous.

No it's not.  Scientists are discussing the odds all the time not only about how it occurred.  Don't we discuss the chances of getting the disease, chances of dying from the disease, based on age, comorbidities, etc?   When you analyze statistics, you're discussing the odds. Decisions on mandates are based on the odds, closing facilities, etc.

[Alan Klein]

What difference does it make? I find it troubling that so much of this "Wuhan lab vs. natural origin" concern is so blatantly racist and political, based on a desire to blame the Chinese.

Why is everything a racial issue?   Can't people you disagree with have other reasons besides race for their opinions?   I blame the CHinese because it started in China.  They didn;t tell the world about it for weeks and allowed it to extend it's reach and damage.  They didn;t let a full examination of their lab.  What are they hiding? 

But the main reason we should know how it developed is to prepare so it doesn't happen again.  How can we prevent that if we don't know how it occurred in the first place?

[Robert Roaldi]

... They didn;t let a full examination of their lab.  ...

You say that as if you have a right to conduct inspections inside other countries.

[Peter McLennan]

Oh no, there was an outbreak of chocolate in Hershey, PA but surely it did not come from the factory!  That would be an irresponsible and sophomoric assumption.  It would be stupid to assume one of the world's leading chocolate makers caused an eruption of chocolate in its own town.   

LOL

For the life of me, I can't see the connection between covid and chocolate, let alone polytetrafluoroethylene.  WTF are you on about?

[LesPalenik]

For the life of me, I can't see the connection between covid and chocolate, let alone polytetrafluoroethylene.  WTF are you on about?

Chocolate has been reported to exert several effects on human sexuality, mainly acting as an effective aphrodisiac, increasing sexual desire, and improving sexual pleasure. Covid has opposite effect.

[Alan Klein]

You say that as if you have a right to conduct inspections inside other countries.

If they had nothing to hide, they would have allowed the investigation.  Very suspicious of them. 

[Robert Roaldi]

If they had nothing to hide, they would have allowed the investigation.  Very suspicious of them.

If they had allowed foreign inspectors who found nothing, you'd just turn around and say that they threw out all the incriminating evidence before the inspectors got there.

Does the US allow foreign countries to inspect its government labs?

[Alan Klein]

If they had allowed foreign inspectors who found nothing, you'd just turn around and say that they threw out all the incriminating evidence before the inspectors got there.

Does the US allow foreign countries to inspect its government labs?

That's exactly what they did.  They allowed inspectors in weeks or months later, after throwing everything out.  Why do you defend a country that killed 8 million people, maimed millions more, and caused trillions of dollars in economic losses?  I don't understand why you're on their side?  It seems that you'd rather blame Trump and the Republicans rather than find out what really started this thing.   You'd rather play politics than know the truth. 

[Robert Roaldi]

That's exactly what they did.  They allowed inspectors in weeks or months later, after throwing everything out.  Why do you defend a country that killed 8 million people, maimed millions more, and caused trillions of dollars in economic losses?  I don't understand why you're on their side?  It seems that you'd rather blame Trump and the Republicans rather than find out what really started this thing.   You'd rather play politics than know the truth.

You're trolling and you're not very good at it. You're trying to imply than I am on China's side. Are there sides here? Only in your head, I believe.

You state that i would rather blame Trump and the Republicans. About what? They didn't create the virus, why would I blame them for that. Seriously, are you not taking your meds? But I do blame Trump for an utterly inadequate response to a pandemic. Of that there is no question. The world's richest nation ends up with 20% of the world's deaths with only 4% of the population. Would you call that a success?

Saying that China killed 8 million is an interesting way to put it. Are you saying they did it deliberately? You're obsessing over this and I don't know why. Viruses appear all the time and have done for centuries. This was just the latest one.

[Peter McLennan]

Why do you defend a country that killed 8 million people, maimed millions more, and caused trillions of dollars in economic losses?  I don't understand why you're on their side?  It seems that you'd rather blame Trump and the Republicans rather than find out what really started this thing.   You'd rather play politics than know the truth.

Alan, it's statements like that that make us call you names. 

You really need to rethink your worldview beyond that of a fourteen year old boy if you want to be taken seriously.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, it's statements like that that make us call you names. 

You really need to rethink your worldview beyond that of a fourteen year old boy if you want to be taken seriously.

You rather call me names than addressing the issue I presented. Alinsky:  Attack the person not the statement.  If you continue down this path, then our debating will be over. As I promised, I will not and don;t want to get into name calling nonsense.  You'll be on your own. 

[Alan Klein]

You're trolling and you're not very good at it. You're trying to imply than I am on China's side. Are there sides here? Only in your head, I believe.

You state that i would rather blame Trump and the Republicans. About what? They didn't create the virus, why would I blame them for that. Seriously, are you not taking your meds? But I do blame Trump for an utterly inadequate response to a pandemic. Of that there is no question. The world's richest nation ends up with 20% of the world's deaths with only 4% of the population. Would you call that a success?

Saying that China killed 8 million is an interesting way to put it. Are you saying they did it deliberately? You're obsessing over this and I don't know why. Viruses appear all the time and have done for centuries. This was just the latest one.

If China was developing Covid 19 as a weapon, then they are 100% responsible for all the deaths and mayhem.   If it escaped the lab that was working with it for medical and science research, then they are only liable for an accident. However, since they failed to stop their own infected people who they knew were infected from traveling to the rest of the world, and hid the nature of the disease from the world for many weeks, both of which are facts, then their liability rises.

The problem is you and others made this political just as you are in your post.  You want to stick to blaming Trump.  So you downplay the Chinese responsibility.  You're still doing it. 

[Robert Roaldi]

If China was developing Covid 19 as a weapon, then they are 100% responsible for all the deaths and mayhem.   If it escaped the lab that was working with it for medical and science research, then they are only liable for an accident. However, since they failed to stop their own infected people who they knew were infected from traveling to the rest of the world, and hid the nature of the disease from the world for many weeks, both of which are facts, then their liability rises.

The problem is you and others made this political just as you are in your post.  You want to stick to blaming Trump.  So you downplay the Chinese responsibility.  You're still doing it.

To be polite, you are making a lot of assumptions. I think you need a good night's sleep.

[Alan Klein]

To be polite, you are making a lot of assumptions. I think you need a good night's sleep.

Well, maybe if Biden and his son didn't get special "business" favors from the Chinese while he was VP, there might be more investigations.  So now, we might have to wait until the Republicans take over Congress next year for meaningful investigations to occur.  .

[chez]

If they had nothing to hide, they would have allowed the investigation.  Very suspicious of them.

You really think the US would allow the Chinese inside their labs?

[Robert Roaldi]

Well, maybe if Biden and his son didn't get special "business" favors from the Chinese while he was VP, there might be more investigations.  So now, we might have to wait until the Republicans take over Congress next year for meaningful investigations to occur.  .

Wasn't that debunked a few times last year?

[Alan Klein]

Wasn't that debunked a few times last year?

Biden was protected, yes.  So was his son.  But it's gotten interesting again.  Both in China and the Ukraine.

New book details ties between Biden family and China
The links he outlines date back to Joe Biden’s first stint in the White House, when he served as vice president under former President Barack Obama.

Schweizer writes about several off-the-books meetings involving Hunter Biden, top officials in the Chinese Communist Party and Joe Biden as well.

“There are instances where the White House visitor logs don’t show a meeting but Chinese executive or government officials report on those meetings in the Chinese media," Schweizer said in an interview Thursday.

He also laid out compelling evidence that show not only was the vice president present at those meetings, but that they were followed by five separate business deals that helped earn Biden family $31 million.

Still, Schweizer said the money is not the top concern, connecting the dots of many of the Chinese businessmen involved and how they were actually part of Chinese intelligence services.

This includes Che Feng, a man referred to by Hunter Biden as “the super chairman” for his ability to get anything done.

“While he was arranging deals for Hunter Biden and China, his partners were with the vice minister for state security in China. This is a man who is responsible for recruiting foreigners to spy on behalf of China," Schweizer said.

While the deals unquestionably helped give China a leg up in the United States, Schweizer questions whether they could also have national security implications.
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/new-book-details-ties-between-biden-family-and-china

The NY Times is also looking into their business dealing in the Ukraine.

Gray Lady ain’t done with Hunter yet
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2022/01/31/gray-lady-aint-done-with-hunter-yet-00003869

[LesPalenik]

You really think the US would allow the Chinese inside their labs?

US does not discriminate when it comes to hiring. They have all kinds of nationalities working in their labs and research centers. Some of the employees (regardless of where they were born) will copy for good money all kinds of data on their flash drives and sell it to the highest bidder.

China is turning a major part of its internal Internet-data surveillance network outward, mining Western social media, including Facebook and Twitter, to equip its government agencies, military and police with information on foreign targets, according to a Washington Post review of hundreds of Chinese bidding documents, contracts and company filings.

China maintains a countrywide network of government data surveillance services — called public opinion analysis software — that were developed over the past decade and are used domestically to warn officials of politically sensitive information online.

The software primarily targets China’s domestic Internet users and media, but a Post review of bidding documents and contracts for over 300 Chinese government projects since the beginning of 2020 include orders for software designed to collect data on foreign targets from sources such as Twitter, Facebook and other Western social media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/china-harvests-masses-of-data-on-western-targets-documents-show/2021/12/31/3981ce9c-538e-11ec-8927-c396fa861a71_story.html