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Author Topic: This should blow your mind...  (Read 2571 times)

digitaldog

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This should blow your mind...
« on: November 07, 2021, 01:24:07 pm »

... If you have any interest in science, photography and imaging:
https://theweek.com/science/1006502/peering-at-the-edge-of-the-universe
NASA is preparing to launch the most powerful space telescope ever. What will it see? Here's everything you need to know:
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kers

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2021, 01:34:37 pm »

Wow!
I also want a camera that sees 150 million light years in the past to make portraits !
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EricV

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2021, 11:17:49 pm »

It will see 13 billion years into the past, to a time shortly after the big bang.  It is primarily an infrared telescope, because light from that time is highly red-shifted.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2021, 11:52:16 am »

I love it that they say the universe is 13.8 billion years old.  Such precision!

Hopefully, the JWST will kick the preposterous big bang theory to the curb.

Here's a great video on the "Insane Engineering" of the new observatory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aICaAEXDJQQ

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PeterAit

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2021, 11:57:04 am »


Hopefully, the JWST will kick the preposterous big bang theory to the curb.



How preposterous? Please explain.
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digitaldog

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2021, 12:03:56 pm »

The launch is apparently now Saturday. Fingers crossed.
https://www.space.com/amp/nasa-james-webb-space-telescope-launch-webcasts
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sf

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2021, 01:25:51 pm »

I also want a camera that sees 150 million light years in the past to make portraits !

A light year is a unit of distance, not time.

S
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digitaldog

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2021, 01:36:47 pm »

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TechTalk

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2021, 06:59:19 pm »

A light year is a unit of distance, not time.

S

He didn't say that it wasn't a distance. He said that he would like to see that distance (150 million light years) into the past. The light being viewed and which has traveled that distance is being viewed after having traveled that distance from the past.

I wouldn't get too overly pleased with myself for knowing that it is a measure of distance.
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rabanito

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2021, 04:29:04 am »

He didn't say that it wasn't a distance. He said that he would like to see that distance (150 million light years) into the past. The light being viewed and which has traveled that distance is being viewed after having traveled that distance from the past.

I wouldn't get too overly pleased with myself for knowing that it is a measure of distance.
I agree with that. I saw it that way too.
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Chris Kern

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2021, 05:46:10 pm »

The launch currently is on for tomorrow (Dec. 25).  My wife an I had a brief outdoor visit on the patio of our house from our grandchildren this afternoon, but we've canceled our other plans because of the SARS-CoV-2 virus so watching the launch, scheduled to take place at some time during a 32-minute window beginning at 1220 UTC from the European Spaceport located near Kourou, French Guiana (the location will give the Ariane 5 rocket an equatorial push), will be my Christmas present to myself.  The launch is a joint project of the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the European Space Agency.  As far as I can determine, the NASA live stream will be available worldwide.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 06:01:40 pm by Chris Kern »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2021, 12:24:46 am »


How preposterous? Please explain.

Gawd knows, I'm not an astrophysicist, but I did read "A Brief History of Time" on a beach in Sri Lanka and understood about 1% of it.  So take all of the following with a grain of salt.

AFAICS, their contention is that before time began, there was nothing. Nothing at all.  No time, no matter, no space, just nothing.

Then, from a single point in space (although there wasn't any space yet) precisely 13.8 billion years ago, the universe simply appeared, instantaneously.

How do they expect us to swallow that?

If it did suddenly appear from a single point, where is that point? They say that the universe is expanding. From where? From that magical point in space that didn't exist before the big bang? Shouldn't we be able to point to it and say "That's where it all began?" Apparently, they can't.

Worse, they tell us that it' expanding in size and even more worse, the rate of expansion is increasing. It's accelerating. Where's the energy coming from to propel that acceleration? 

To balance the physics books, they expect us to believe that it's accelerated by "dark energy". 

And if that's not enough, they tell us that they can't account for the majority of the mass that must be present for their explanations to all work out, so they invent "dark matter".

Really?

It appears to me to be a house of cards.  Hopefully JWST will bring down that improbable construction and replace it with something even more preposterous.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 12:07:44 pm by Peter McLennan »
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sf

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2021, 02:31:24 pm »

He didn't say that it wasn't a distance. He said that he would like to see that distance (150 million light years) into the past. The light being viewed and which has traveled that distance is being viewed after having traveled that distance from the past.

Nonsense.

S
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TechTalk

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2021, 02:53:00 pm »

Which part?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2021, 03:54:51 pm »

Gawd knows, I'm not an astrophysicist, but I did read "A Brief History of Time" on a beach in Sri Lanka and understood about 1% of it.  So take all of the following with a grain of salt.

AFAICS, their contention is that before time began, there was nothing. Nothing at all.  No time, no matter, no space, just nothing.

Then, from a single point in space (although there wasn't any space yet) precisely 13.8 billion years ago, the universe simply appeared, instantaneously.

How do they expect us to swallow that?

If it did suddenly appear from a single point, where is that point? They say that the universe is expanding. From where? From that magical point in space that didn't exist before the big bang? Shouldn't we be able to point to it and say "That's where it all began?" Apparently, they can't.

Worse, they tell us that it' expanding in size and even more worse, the rate of expansion is increasing. It's accelerating. Where's the energy coming from to propel that acceleration? 

To balance the physics books, they expect us to believe that it's accelerated by "dark energy". 

And if that's not enough, they tell us that they can't account for the majority of the mass that must be present for their explanations to all work out, so they invent "dark matter".

Really?

It appears to me to be a house of cards.  Hopefully JWST will bring down that improbable construction and replace it with something even more preposterous.

I did a couple of physics degrees a lifetime ago so I suspect there are far more qualified people to respond. The laws pf physics were (are) developed to explain observed phenomenon. Those laws, as currently understood, can only reasonably explain things back to the big bang. They cannot explain what happened before yet, if anything happened back then. You seem to be assuming that they are trying to tell you that nothing existed before, whereas all physics is saying is that we have no theories to or observations to tell us what happened before. Not the same thing. There is no contention that nothing existed before, only that there is no observable data to lead to a theory that explains what existed before. This may change over time and probably will, if history is anything to go by.

I understand that physics sounds like science fiction, but that's partly because it's difficult to put the mathematics into English words. It sounds more fantastical that it is. The theories are there to explain observed phenomenon, which are real. You don't have to cite big bang to arrive at things that are hard to believe. If simple relativity is explained to the average person, they'll think it's a load of nonsense. I know this because I've tried. And yet we all use GPS every day, whose accuracy depends on relativity.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2021, 06:05:54 pm »

Agreed, Robert.  The big bang appears to be the physicists' best excuse for where our knowledge ends. 
I just wish they'd come up with an excuse that's a little easier to swallow.  Or, perhaps, be more honest with us.

Nevertheless, as someone who ran home from Grade 2 to tell my mom that the Russians had launched Sputnik, I'm more than stoked that I'll be able to see what the JWST has to offer.

Here's an excellent visualization of the launch and the unfolding.  Nearly as preposterous as the BBT.  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9MxqFfBTzQ

« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 06:32:33 pm by Peter McLennan »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2021, 09:50:25 pm »

Agreed, Robert.  The big bang appears to be the physicists' best excuse for where our knowledge ends. 
I just wish they'd come up with an excuse that's a little easier to swallow.  Or, perhaps, be more honest with us.

Nevertheless, as someone who ran home from Grade 2 to tell my mom that the Russians had launched Sputnik, I'm more than stoked that I'll be able to see what the JWST has to offer.

Here's an excellent visualization of the launch and the unfolding.  Nearly as preposterous as the BBT.  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9MxqFfBTzQ

You might like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hApcpGJETA. I recommend her channel.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2021, 11:19:11 pm »

You might like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hApcpGJETA. I recommend her channel.

Thanks, Robert. I find her comments interesting, but not very enlightening.  I suspect that Einstein's theories are beyond my capability to understand at this stage of my 75 years.  She does seem to allow that the BBT is really pretty much of a euphemism.

I attended a film shown in the National Air and Space Museum a few years ago. Neil de Grasse Tyson narrated and he addressed the question of "Where's the center of expansion where the Big Bang started?" by saying that "That's asking the wrong question."  As much as I admire and enjoy NdGT, I found this a little challenging. 

I continue to ask those questions.  I don't think JWST is going to answer them, though.  I suspect it will ask more questions than it answers.  One scientist, when asked what he expected from JWST, responded "Surprises, I hope".  I agree. That would truly reward our investment.

I do love the poetry describing the recent launch as "A journey from the tropical jungle to the morning of time".
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digitaldog

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2022, 03:30:36 pm »

Super great news:
Quote
The James Webb Space Telescope, which launched on Christmas Day, successfully completed the deployment of its 70-foot (21-meter) sunshield on Tuesday. This critical milestone is one of several that must occur for the NASA observatory to function properly in space, and having achieved it was a big relief for the Webb team.
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Alan Klein

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Re: This should blow your mind...
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2022, 04:06:58 pm »

Gawd knows, I'm not an astrophysicist, but I did read "A Brief History of Time" on a beach in Sri Lanka and understood about 1% of it.  So take all of the following with a grain of salt.

AFAICS, their contention is that before time began, there was nothing. Nothing at all.  No time, no matter, no space, just nothing.

Then, from a single point in space (although there wasn't any space yet) precisely 13.8 billion years ago, the universe simply appeared, instantaneously.

How do they expect us to swallow that?

If it did suddenly appear from a single point, where is that point? They say that the universe is expanding. From where? From that magical point in space that didn't exist before the big bang? Shouldn't we be able to point to it and say "That's where it all began?" Apparently, they can't.

Worse, they tell us that it' expanding in size and even more worse, the rate of expansion is increasing. It's accelerating. Where's the energy coming from to propel that acceleration? 

To balance the physics books, they expect us to believe that it's accelerated by "dark energy". 

And if that's not enough, they tell us that they can't account for the majority of the mass that must be present for their explanations to all work out, so they invent "dark matter".

Really?

It appears to me to be a house of cards.  Hopefully JWST will bring down that improbable construction and replace it with something even more preposterous.
How do you explain the color purple to a person who's been blind since birth?  Our senses were developed for use on Earth.  We can't easily comprehend mysteries beyond the capabilities of our senses. 
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