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Author Topic: new MacBook Pro's  (Read 1951 times)

Jeff Kott

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new MacBook Pro's
« on: October 19, 2021, 05:38:53 pm »

I'm going to get one of these. No video editing, just photo editing using Capture One and Photoshop.

If Dan is reading this, do you think a MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro chip will be adequate or should I step up to the M1 Max?

Thanks,

Jeff Kott
San Francisco
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Dan Wells

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2021, 09:56:01 pm »

Everything is taking more and more advantage of the GPU... What's your camera, and, if it's not  high resolution, do you plan to buy a high resolution (>45 MP) camera while you have the machine?

If you neither have nor plan to buy a high resolution camera, an M1 Pro (the 10 core version - I wouldn't EVER buy the 8 core) and 32 GB of RAM is probably fine. If you have a high resolution camera, I'd opt for one of the Max variants, and I'd consider 64 GB of RAM. If you are even considering a REALLY high resolution camera (and remember that 100 MP, while presently limited to medium format, won't be forever), definitely get the M1 Max and try really hard to get 64 GB if you can possibly afford it...

Dan
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Jeff Kott

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2021, 11:53:33 pm »

Thanks Dan!

I’m currently using an A7R3 (42 MP), and not sure what my next camera will be. The GFX 100 MP cameras are looking pretty good. You’ve given me something to think about.
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Manoli

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2021, 03:31:46 am »

No video editing, just photo editing using Capture One and Photoshop.
If you have a high resolution camera, I'd opt for one of the Max variants, and I'd consider 64 GB of RAM.

If you need 64MB RAM, then your only option is the M1 MAX, 64MB RAM is not available on the PRO chip.

Edit:
Apart from the RAM, the other difference is that the MAX can run 4 monitors, whilst the PRO runs ‘only’ 2.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 04:09:24 am by Manoli »
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Manoli

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2021, 03:40:16 am »

… an M1 Pro (the 10 core version - I wouldn't EVER buy the 8 core) and 32 GB of RAM is probably fine.

Spare a thought for the poor souls who are struggling on the paltry M1 8-core iPad Pro they bought but a few months ago!
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mcbroomf

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2021, 04:17:26 am »

Dan, I have a question about memory bandwidth; M1 Pro vs M1 Max.

The Max has twice the bandwidth of the Pro (400 vs 200).  Presumably this is to enable efficient use of the 64GB memory that it can be configured with vs the 32GB that the Pro can have.
My question; is this memory bandwidth an advantage in a configuration of 32GB memory with the M1 Max vs 32GB with the M1 Pro?  Or is it "idle".
The comparison is not apples to apples (in real world hardware) as the 2 devices end up with different # of GPU cores, but I'm interested how the memory bandwidth is used if the memory is not maxed, and using PS and LR I'd expect the extra GPU will have little affect on actual use.

Thanks

Mike
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kers

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2021, 07:25:20 am »

Newer versions of Lightroom uses The GPU extensively. With the addition of more Ai related functions it will use it even more.

Ram is also used as cache. That built up while you work and set free when a program needs it or when it hits the max.
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Dan Wells

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2021, 09:51:23 am »

When you say 100 MP GFX is "looking pretty good", you are making a strong argument for the Max... 64 GB RAM requires the Max, and I can't imagine processing files from my GFX 100S without 64 GB.

The M1 Max comes in 24 and 32 GPU core varieties (there is no 16 core M1 Max), and I'm less sure about that choice. It's a rather small upgrade cost, compared to the (essential) 64 GB upgrade, and to the overall cost of the machine, so my inclination might be to go for the upgrade.

As for the memory bandwidth, I don't know how that will affect things. On CPU intensive tasks, even 200 GB/s is unprecedented (that's the memory bandwidth of a good-sized server - 8 channels of DDR 4 3200 on an EPYC or Xeon SP). 400 GB/S is unheard of on the CPU side - no single processor in standard production supports either 16 memory channels or DDR 4 6400 in an 8 channel configuration (there may be some single supercomputer chip that does).  Desktop CPUs are mostly around 50 GB/S, with a few around 100.

The other side of the memory bandwidth question, though, is that 200-400 GB/S is relatively standard for high end GPUs, with a few even higher. On GPU intensive tasks, that's still good bandwidth (remember it's used by both CPU and GPU), but nothing extraordinary.
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mcbroomf

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2021, 06:29:39 pm »

Thanks Dan
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pschefz

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2021, 02:56:03 pm »

Just placed an order for 16 M1max 64 ram, interested to see the real world difference to my M1 mbp 16ram
will CPU tasks be that much faster? obviously GPU and extra ram will speed things up, but unless software can make use of all the extra processing power, how much difference will I see?
I am expecting a huge step up in FCPX and for video in general.
LR (not classic), PS, Phocus? I guess just the 64ram alone will make a big difference?

the other question about this is in regard to screen. the new screen is 10bit mini LED same as the pro display (which I don't have and won't get) and it can't be calibrated with my existing puck, I guess it requires some high end solution which I won't buy, so am I better off just working on my 16" and use my iPad Pro M1 (also miniLED) as a second screen? vertical images on the iPad are more or less the same size as on my 24" and the iPad and mbp screens don't need calibration and should be closer anyway?

in general I have to say that the M1 is crazy fast and can handle pretty much anything I can throw at it but render/output times can be a challenge, so I am not really expecting anything to be "more instant" (other then crazy video effect in real time).
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Dan Wells

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2021, 04:51:33 pm »

The screen is one of my biggest questions... I haven't used any of Apple's Mini LED uncalibratable wonders. Those who HAVE used the XDR Display say it's excellent (and I haven't heard any reports of drift off the factory calibration). Apple needs to introduce a solution for calibration with a more normal puck, even if mainly to reassure users, because there will soon be a LOT more of those screens out there - the XDR display is very niche market, and the iPad Pro needs to look GOOD, but perhaps not to be super-accurate. Very few people bother calibrating iPads, but people will want to be able to calibrate MBPs (even if there's not much drift, people will need to be convinced of that). I wonder if Apple is doing some sort of closed-loop technique measuring the backlight to keep the screen at its factory calibration?

I'd expect a bare minimum of twice the speed of the M1 MBP, simply from twice as many cores and the RAM (remember that the M1 has only four performance cores while the M1 Max has eight - the M1 has four efficiency cores in there as well). On GPU intensive stuff, it could be faster than that.
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digitaldog

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2021, 05:18:45 pm »

The screen is one of my biggest questions... I haven't used any of Apple's Mini LED uncalibratable wonders.
All the displays are calibrated at the factory. To (DCI-P3) if that's your goal is a different story. Ditto for iPads.
Frankly, when you've been using a MacBook Pro hooked up to a SpectraView (san's location work), you'd be hard pressed to be impressed with any Apple display and most others, certainly if you do calibrate to a desired set of aim points for soft proofing.
Should be no issue using a modern i1Display Plus for XDR; that's one of the only 'features' of the newer Colorimeter. A solution exists, it isn't Apples to provide.
Would I use it on a MacBook display other than testing? Probably not.
Quote
I wonder if Apple is doing some sort of closed-loop technique measuring the backlight to keep the screen at its factory calibration?
Not that I am aware of, but then, without someone doing long term measurements and dE testing, it's not possible to know how long and how far it may, repeat may drift over the years.
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OwenR

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2021, 10:54:28 am »

Hi Jeff,

I just had a 14" Pro delivered today. I need it for a trip soon so couldn't wait for the exact spec I wanted (Max, 32gb) so went for a stock 10-core machine with 16gb RAM. It flies. Working today with a large session in Capture One and multi-layered composite files in PS, all from a GFX100 and it didn't lag at any point. Some swap memory going on but it wasn't noticeable. I'd bet that a Pro with 32gb will be more than enough. These things seem to have little in common with the Intel ones as far as RAM requirements go, it's going to replace a maxed out 2019 iMac with 64gb as it's clearly far, far faster.

I'm going to get one of these. No video editing, just photo editing using Capture One and Photoshop.

If Dan is reading this, do you think a MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro chip will be adequate or should I step up to the M1 Max?

Thanks,

Jeff Kott
San Francisco
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Jeff Kott

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2021, 12:11:52 pm »

Thanks Owen,

I've got an order in for a 16 inch with "only" the Pro chip, and "only"  32 GBs of RAM, so your comments are very appreciated. I'm not trying to future proof and if I find out I the MacBook Pro doesn't have enough oomph, I'll trade it in.

I think there are two schools of thought, buy a machine now that you know will be good for many years (future proof) or buy for your current needs with a little headroom to go. When I follow the latter course, things usually last for longer than I expect and I've saved money to for the next system. But I understand why people want to max out their configurations.
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OwenR

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2021, 04:40:25 am »

Agreed. If there'd been a choice I'd have upgraded a couple of things, but for people who are on the fence due to cost the 10 core 16gb machines are exceptional, and even more so with cameras with less resolution. I've been trying to get it to go into the red with memory for days and can't make it slow down, this thing is so impressive.
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pschefz

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2021, 11:51:27 am »

All the displays are calibrated at the factory. To (DCI-P3) if that's your goal is a different story. Ditto for iPads.
Frankly, when you've been using a MacBook Pro hooked up to a SpectraView (san's location work), you'd be hard pressed to be impressed with any Apple display and most others, certainly if you do calibrate to a desired set of aim points for soft proofing.
Should be no issue using a modern i1Display Plus for XDR; that's one of the only 'features' of the newer Colorimeter. A solution exists, it isn't Apples to provide.
Would I use it on a MacBook display other than testing? Probably not. Not that I am aware of, but then, without someone doing long term measurements and dE testing, it's not possible to know how long and how far it may, repeat may drift over the years.

apple came out with this info about calibration of the mini LED displays
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Dan Wells

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2021, 06:49:08 pm »

This is very disappointing, since it requires a spectroradiometer - a $5000-$10,000 instrument. It doesn't mention how to do a calibration with a $100 Spyder (if such a thing is possible). It's essentially the same information that's out there about the Pro Display XDR...

Of course, it's possible that the display doesn't really drift (or barely drifts) and that its internal electronics keep it within tolerances.

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mcbroomf

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2021, 07:17:09 am »

Has anyone had a chance to run the Puget Bench for Photoshop (LR not compatible with Mac) on one of the new systems yet?  I'm quite interested to see how it performs with heavy stills editing and it looks like they have already updated it for PS 23.x support.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/PugetBench-for-Photoshop-1132/#UpdateLog

I think there was a thread some time ago with scores listed as people used it.  I'll see if I can find it and post a link.
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morristaub

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Re: new MacBook Pro's
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2021, 09:33:52 pm »

I'm going to get one of these. No video editing, just photo editing using Capture One and Photoshop.

If Dan is reading this, do you think a MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro chip will be adequate or should I step up to the M1 Max?

Thanks,

Jeff Kott
San Francisco

I recently saw this youtube video comparing the base macbook pro, 14", one with 16gb of ram the other with 32gb. It's just crazy how much stuff this guy has running in the background when he eventually starts playing with photoshop and Lightroom.

Tell me please if this kind of testing makes absolutely no sense. I would just be using my computer for photoshop and lightroom. Smallish files. 24-50 megapixels. No video. I'm thinking I'd be alright with the m1 pro chip and 16 gb of ram. Why spend money that won't help me process files any faster.

max tech test

Check it out. Make your own decision. I have no ties at all to this website. I was just browsing around looking for tests.

I'll eventually buy either one of these 14" laptops and connect my nec monitors to it. Or if apple puts these chips in an upgraded mac mini with similar ram offers I'd probably buy one of those.
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