DXO Pure Raw

[pflower]

Anyone tried this yet?

I have played a bit with it on A7RIV and Hasselblad X1D files.  It certainly brings out considerable more detail - or apparently so - it could just be a very aggressive sharpening algorithm since when viewed on screen at 100% landscape shots look vastly over sharpened.  I haven't printed enough to judge properly.  But it may be that its real usefulness would be with underexposed high iso images which I don't have very many.

[Martin Kristiansen]

I am using the free trial at the moment. I will almost certainly purchase it.

The sharpening is a bit aggressive but make sure the sharpening in LR is disabled so you aren't getting double sharpening. That can be a thing. I really like the lens/camera profile and that alone would justify the purchase I think. I don't like LR lens profiles.

[Rhossydd]

I really don't understand this product. From what I've read elsewhere it offers a lot less than the full version of PL4 at a similar price (once you get the discount codes). It's just bits of PL4 without any finesses of control.

PL4 is interesting, but is a long way off perfect. There's a thread here that goes into it in much greater detail https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136570.0

[Martin Kristiansen]

The product allows you to use noise reduction, sharpening and camera/lens profiles from PL4 while still using a LR workflow. Many people, such as myself, are heavily invested in the LR PS workflow and don’t want to move away from that while appreciating these PL4 tools.

Simple really.

[Rhossydd]

The product allows you to use noise reduction, sharpening and camera/lens profiles from PL4 while still using a LR workflow. Many people, such as myself, are heavily invested in the LR PS workflow and don’t want to move away from that while appreciating these PL4 tools.

Simple really.

Yes, I understand what the product does.
PL4 can output a DNG so you can use your usual LR workflow, but retain control over the NR, sharpening etc which Pure RAW doesn't allow.

So you either use Pure RAW and have no control over the settings (which seem very aggressive from what I read above and elsewhere) or use PL4 and have more controls and have the option to use the whole programme if it suits you.

For me it's an option I hadn't spotted when I tested PL4 and makes far more sense. It's on my 'next time I see it cheap' buying list, but I can wait until PL5 will be offered at 50% later in the year ;-)

[Martin Kristiansen]

You drag a file out of LR grid view and drop it onto the DXO app and tell it to output a DNG which is pretty much imported straight back into LR. Simple workflow. No running another app I would have to learn and output DNG that I then need to import into LR.

But you haven’t used it, as in used the full functioning free trial, and you haven’t seen the results or tested the workflow. With all due respect I don’t know why I’m even engaged in discussing it when all you have to actually offer is based on what other people have said. I mean perhaps you are right but aren’t you curious about seeing for yourself and making up your own mind, or have you decided already with basically no actual evidence?

[Rhossydd]

or have you decided already with basically no actual evidence?

The technology is straight out of PL4 Elite at the default settings. I spent a month evaluating it and contacting DXO support to try to see why it didn't work properly.
The chances of them having pulled all the bugs out of it with this widget seems very slim to me, so not worth wasting further time with.

I'm just pointing out to you that using the full version will offer you better options for similar cost. It's hardly difficult software to learn if you already use a RAW converter.

Do you use 'all auto' settings in other software ? why would you accept that with this ?

[jrp]

It also depends on having profiles fir the camera and lenses that you are using.

[Rhossydd]

It also depends on having profiles fir the camera and lenses that you are using.

Quite. See my thread about this problem with DXO at https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136745.0

With the drag and hope system of Pure RAW, you probably can't see if it gets it wrong.

There's a lot to like about PL4 Elite. I think DXO would have been better just refining how you can use PL4 with LR, rather than this poorly thought out utility.

[Rajan Parrikar]

I am using the free trial at the moment. I will almost certainly purchase it.

The sharpening is a bit aggressive but make sure the sharpening in LR is disabled so you aren't getting double sharpening. That can be a thing. I really like the lens/camera profile and that alone would justify the purchase I think. I don't like LR lens profiles.

I posted this on another forum.

DxOPureRAW works extremely well on high ISO images. On normal exposures in good light, the files come out a little too crisp. I hope in the next update DxO can offer some degree of user control. One other caveat - when it passes off the file to Photoshop, it does not transmit the camera profile to ACR. This is an issue if you have custom camera profiles as it can lead to a significant colour shift. It is a simple matter to re-select the profile in ACR but you may be left scratching your head if you didn't know what's happening.

[David Eckels]

Just learned something important. NVIDIA drivers for GeForce RTX 2070 Super needed to be upgraded to current version 27.21.14.6231 in order to avoid black frames in the first four DNG conversions from NEF.

[vjbelle]

I downloaded the trial and tried it on a 7RM4 file.  There was no difference in sharpening or detail.  There was some difference in noise level which was already at an incredibly low level.  I also tried it on some GFX 100 files and there was absolutely no difference between original and Pure Raw.
I won't be purchasing.....

Victor B.

[pflower]

I tried it on A7RIII files shot at between 400 and 800 iso and found no benefit.  Yes, noise was reduced but at the cost of sharpness and detail.  The original files had a bit more noise but looked sharper when viewed at 100%.

By contrast there is a dramatic increase in sharpness and detail with X1D files - again shot at around 800 iso.  For well exposed files shot at 100 iso, there is very little difference.  But the higher iso files, particularly if slightly underexposed, show a really very impressive increase in detail and sharpness.

So it could be the benefits of this software are camera dependent.  I can certainly see myself using it on X1D files from time to time, but I could see no benefit on the A7RIII files at all.

I downloaded the trial and tried it on a 7RM4 file.  There was no difference in sharpening or detail.  There was some difference in noise level which was already at an incredibly low level.  I also tried it on some GFX 100 files and there was absolutely no difference between original and Pure Raw.
I won't be purchasing.....

Victor B.

[Rhossydd]

So it could be the benefits of this software are camera dependent.

That's only to be expected. If you shoot with a modern camera at low(ish) ISO there won't be much noise to take out. Point it at a file from a much older camera with lots of noise and you should see a significant benefit.
Similarly if you're using high quality lenses that are correctly supported, there's little scope for big improvements in quality.

There also the side issue of whether removing all noise is actually a good thing, especially if that removal smooths out small tonal differences or detail.

[vjbelle]

Agree with your comment regarding noise reduction.  I don't normally use any noise reduction on any file but then again I am usually shooting at base iso.  It seems to be best suited for older files or specialized files.  I also have no ability to make any adjustments of any kind.  Everything is auto....

Victor B.

[pflower]

I totally agree with that.  Grain/noise etc. is part of the print.  Why else did everyone shoot with Tri-X for so long?  I would suggest that it is because the overall look of the film was exciting. 

Totally smooth, noiseless digital files can look plastic and bland.  But with Pure Raw there is a very significant increase in sharpness and detail in my X1D files.  I have now tried it on very old cameras - Nikon D2X, Panasonic GH2, GX7, all Sony's and don't see much improvement.  But something interesting is happening with my X1D files.  Other than that - meh - so what.



There also the side issue of whether removing all noise is actually a good thing, especially if that removal smooths out small tonal differences or detail.
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[nemophoto]

So, I tried DxO Pure RAW for a couple of weeks. Generally, it did a credible job -- at least on higher res files. (It did a nice job on some R5 files shot when I was playing with my old Canon FD 500mm/f8  mirror lens adapted to the R5.)

I decided to try it on an older 1Ds II files since they are about 1/3 the size of my R5 files. I have found Topaz Gigapixel does a nice job massaging even ancient Olympus E10 4MP files and Canon D30 3MP files as well as 4MP 1D files, but I was curious what would happen with DxO. (Obviously, I'm not scaling images with DxO, only processing, but I find Gigapixel does an interesting job of optimizing the pixels that are there which is what DxO purports to do. As another disclosure, I own and use periodically Dxo Photolab 4 and am pleased with the results when I use it.) I suppose the real answer is, it all depends on the nature of the original file.

I took a shot from County Kerry Ireland. It has lots of texture. I wanted to see what would happen. In a way, the results were disappointing. There appears to be too much sharpening which yields an overly crunchy image and what looks to be artificial, exaggerated grain. I did some screen shots from my 4K monitor. I like, at least to start, my Lightroom Developed version. I can always sharpen more at the end, but LR yielded a smoother looking image when you view 100%. (My "capture sharpening" is usually about 80-85 for Amount, a radius of .6 or .7 and masking between 10-25.)

[Rajan Parrikar]

An update has been released yesterday. Now you can disable sharpness and optical corrections separately while deploying DeepPrime Noise Reduction technology.

[Rhossydd]

An update has been released yesterday.

Interesting timing for this. On past record DXO are likely to release PL5 in the next few weeks.

Trying to grab a last few sales by fixing the sticking points with PW just before PL5 arrives ?

[Rajan Parrikar]

Interesting timing for this. On past record DXO are likely to release PL5 in the next few weeks.

Trying to grab a last few sales by fixing the sticking points with PW just before PL5 arrives ?

For those who already owned DxOPureRAW this was a free update.