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Author Topic: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control  (Read 1060 times)

NeilPrintArt

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profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« on: April 08, 2021, 04:05:24 am »

Hello
Printing on my Epson P10000 and using my i1Pro2 and i1Profiler, I am trying to create a custom profile for a relatively 'lightweight' paper that is 200gsm in weight. The paper is prone to buckling under heavy ink load. Is it better to reduce ink density before creating the profile (i.e. print the test chart with reduced ink density) or is it better to print test charts with full ink load and then dial down density within driver when printing?
Thanks!
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Neil Williamson
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Rhossydd

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2021, 04:12:39 am »

You should get the ink load correct before profiling.
Try various media settings, if none work as well as you think they should you could, try customising the settings until you arrive at the optimum, then save those as a pre-set for use when profiling and using the profile later.
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JRSmit

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2021, 11:16:16 am »

Watercolor Radiant White has less inkload relative to Velvet Fine Art, at least on Epson printers.
What particular paper are you talking about?
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Doug Gray

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2021, 03:35:44 pm »

Hello
Printing on my Epson P10000 and using my i1Pro2 and i1Profiler, I am trying to create a custom profile for a relatively 'lightweight' paper that is 200gsm in weight. The paper is prone to buckling under heavy ink load. Is it better to reduce ink density before creating the profile (i.e. print the test chart with reduced ink density) or is it better to print test charts with full ink load and then dial down density within driver when printing?
Thanks!

Never change driver settings after profiling. A custom profile is specific to the paper and all settings in the driver including ink density, DPI, uni-bi direction, vacuum, head height, etc.

A good practice is determine which setting works best for a paper then save the driver settings in the driver and label it with the paper, and whatever else make sense: Something like: EpsonPremSGHighDPIUni  Then just select that setting when you profile and subsequently print.
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NeilPrintArt

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2021, 09:53:56 am »

Thanks for the all the helpful input and apologies for late reply

I have been trying to profile Felix Schoeller 'True Fibre 200gsm'.
This is a fairly lightweight alpha-cellulose paper, similar in weight and thickness to Epson Watercolour Radiant White (but unlike WCRW is smooth with a 'natural' white point)
Struggling with persistent cockling or buckling in areas of heavy ink load.

My studio Relative Humidity is usually around 55 to 60%, so I don't think that is major factor?

Yes, thank you for reminding me, of course, always important to get all settings like media type and density and feed decided first, then create profile (reducing density after profiling, on a print-by-print basis will reduce saturation/gamut)

Tried a lot of media types trying to get the ink load right. Working downwards from VFA, Enhanced Matt, WCRW, DoubleWeight, SingleWeight etc etc

Reducing the 'ink density' setting on any of the media types appears to reduce saturation and gamut (based on just looking with the naked eye, haven't actually measured tests with my i1Pro) but my understanding is that the profiling process would correct most of the loss of saturation and gamut? 

After a lot of tests and experiments what I have found is that suction ('vacuum') and drying time also make a big difference on lightweight papers. Lowering the suction (in the platen gap area) helps a lot. My guess is that, with a lightweight paper, having a strong suction causes the paper to buckle at the moment the ink hits the paper and saturates it. Also adding a significant amount of drying time (head pause at the end of each pass) helps - but obviously makes for a slow print.

I have currently settled on Enhanced Matt media type with -5% density, +15 drying time and suction at -3(52%)

Thanks again for all the replies and input   



 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 09:58:30 am by NeilPrintArt »
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Neil Williamson
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Rhossydd

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2021, 10:46:53 am »

my understanding is that the profiling process would correct most of the loss of saturation and gamut?
Sorry, but that's a misunderstanding. A profile can't increase saturation and gamut beyond what you're seeing on unprofiled output.
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NeilPrintArt

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2021, 03:27:54 am »

Sorry, but that's a misunderstanding. A profile can't increase saturation and gamut beyond what you're seeing on unprofiled output.

Rhossydd - yes thanks for this. Yes that seems logical. I guess I am slightly confused by conflicting options, for example this comment by Jeff Schewe in another, older, thread on ink density "Also note that increasing or decreasing the ink density when making a profile target will tend to get the increase/decrease profiled out"

Luminous Landscape Forum > Raw & Post Processing, Printing > Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks > increasing color density
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=50658.0


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Neil Williamson
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Rhossydd

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2021, 03:50:34 am »

The quote from Schewe to take from that thread is "There is an optimal settings and that will work the best for making profiles."

Find that, then build your profile.
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NeilPrintArt

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2021, 04:34:03 am »

Yes! thanks
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Neil Williamson
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digitaldog

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2021, 10:50:08 am »

Download this test file for visually examining ink density. Used to test best media settings for 3rd party papers:
http://digitaldog.net/files/InkDensity.zip
Print, examine visually the separation and pick the best setting for profiling that condition.
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Stephen G

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2021, 08:41:40 am »

As I recall from previous testing Enhanced Matte is quite a heavy ink load.

Using the same 200g paper on my P9000 I've gotten a great profile using Ultrasmooth Fine Art as the media setting. No need for adjusting suction or drying time. Different printer, I know, but if you haven't already the test this with digitaldog's InkDensity image, or with the OnSight test image.
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JRSmit

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2021, 10:58:36 am »

Water color Radiant White is a good alternatieve. Less inkload in 1/2 to black.
I use it for a 210 gsm paper of Innovaart, IFA24.
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NeilPrintArt

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Re: profiling a lightweight paper - ink density control
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2021, 12:20:57 pm »

Thanks all!
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Neil Williamson
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