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Author Topic: Disruptive change in health care delivery  (Read 991 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2021, 07:46:09 am »

Amazon is expanding its Amazon Care services which covers among other things online chats with doctors and prescription delivery services to other companies.
Even in Canada where health care is free, many doctors chose to interact with their patients over the phone rather than through in person visits. Initially introduced to minimize the spread of C19, this practice may become in the future a new normal. My GP has been closed for in person visits for a year now.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-starts-offering-healthcare-other-132114175.html

Employing new technologies to deliver health care has taken a while to get off the ground but here in Ottawa at the family clinic we deal with and the interactions with local hospitals, integration of services is pretty good. It's not surprising that adopting new procedures has taken a while, health is very decentralized, large numbers of independent businesses after all. If Amazon is introducing tools to facilitate this, good for them, but it was happening anyway and has been for years.
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Robert

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2021, 07:49:02 am »

... Will Canada accept Amazon's help, processes, or even their ideas? Or will Canada just continue with outdated modes of care?

I only just saw this early entry of yours on this topic. You are spectacularly ignorant on a wide variety of topics, but you may have reached your apex with this one. My congratulations, it can't be easy being this wrong this often.

I've asked you this before, which alt-right conspiracy wacko web site do you get your sound bites from? If you simply gave us that link, you could save yourself some typing time.
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Robert

Alan Klein

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2021, 09:38:38 am »

Amazon is expanding its Amazon Care services which covers among other things online chats with doctors and prescription delivery services to other companies.
Even in Canada where health care is free, many doctors chose to interact with their patients over the phone rather than through in person visits. Initially introduced to minimize the spread of C19, this practice may become in the future a new normal. My GP has been closed for in person visits for a year now.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-starts-offering-healthcare-other-132114175.html
Zoom meetings with patients are certainly a way to keep costs down.  It provides the means for doctors to "see" more patients and increase their billing with reduced effort.  Less support staff is needed.  But will it turn out to provide better health care?  How many issues are being missed initially because of these hands-off visits? 

Alan Klein

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2021, 09:40:24 am »

I only just saw this early entry of yours on this topic. You are spectacularly ignorant on a wide variety of topics, but you may have reached your apex with this one. My congratulations, it can't be easy being this wrong this often.

I've asked you this before, which alt-right conspiracy wacko web site do you get your sound bites from? If you simply gave us that link, you could save yourself some typing time.
Why does the left always have trouble listening to opposing viewpoints? Why do they always want to shut them down?  What are they afraid of?

faberryman

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2021, 09:51:06 am »

Why does the left always have trouble listening to opposing viewpoints? Why do they always want to shut them down?  What are they afraid of?

Whataboutism followed by three straw men, for a total of four logical fallacies in a single line. Seven logical fallacies if you include the three false statements embedded in the straw men.

One well might wonder why you never answer any questions, but always change the subject instead.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 10:16:15 am by faberryman »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2021, 09:56:29 am »

Why does the left always have trouble listening to opposing viewpoints? Why do they always want to shut them down?  What are they afraid of?

"left" ?   Put away the dog whistle, please.

Disagreeing with you is not the same thing as trying to shut you down. When did I, or anyone, try to shut you down? You seem to be saying that disagreeing with you is trying to "shut you down".  Why would you think that?
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Robert

Alan Klein

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2021, 10:02:27 am »

"left" ?   Put away the dog whistle, please.

Disagreeing with you is not the same thing as trying to shut you down. When did I, or anyone, try to shut you down? You seem to be saying that disagreeing with you is trying to "shut you down".  Why would you think that?
When you use an insulting dog whistle like alt-right conspiracy wing wacko site and call me ignorant, your close-mindedness and hatred clearly shows.   That's your refusal to address intellectual thought that is contrary to your views.  It's a habit of the left. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2021, 10:07:07 am »

When you use an insulting dog whistle like alt-right conspiracy wing wacko site and call me ignorant, your close-mindedness and hatred clearly shows.   That's your refusal to address intellectual thought that is contrary to your views.  It's a habit of the left.

In the strictest sense, that is true. But the nonsense you often spew about things that you obviously don't know anything about is beyond the pale. And when people point out what was wrong with your position, you double down and call them "leftists" or some other nonsense. This is no longer interesting.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2021, 10:25:51 am »

In the strictest sense, that is true. But the nonsense you often spew about things that you obviously don't know anything about is beyond the pale. And when people point out what was wrong with your position, you double down and call them "leftists" or some other nonsense. This is no longer interesting.
I enjoy the debate. It keeps the blood flowing. I like thinking out of the box.  I'm a contrarian.  It causes me to question my beliefs as well as yours and think of alternatives.  It's a way of being creative.  It helps my photography.  Sometimes I take a position that is contrary to my beliefs to help put the spotlight on issues.  If everyone is just agreeing with each other, everyone learns nothing. We're all preaching to the choir.  Attack my logic and facts.  That's fine.  But when you attack me with name-calling, the whole conversation degrades.  You're a smart person.  Most people here are also smart and make fine points.  It just would be better if we kept it intellectual rather than degrading into the depths as often happens on social forums.  I think you agree with this and would have a great chat over a beer or two. 

faberryman

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2021, 11:09:31 am »

I enjoy the debate. It keeps the blood flowing. I like thinking out of the box.  I'm a contrarian.  It causes me to question my beliefs as well as yours and think of alternatives.  It's a way of being creative.  It helps my photography.  Sometimes I take a position that is contrary to my beliefs to help put the spotlight on issues.  If everyone is just agreeing with each other, everyone learns nothing. We're all preaching to the choir.  Attack my logic and facts.  That's fine.  But when you attack me with name-calling, the whole conversation degrades.  You're a smart person.  Most people here are also smart and make fine points.  It just would be better if we kept it intellectual rather than degrading into the depths as often happens on social forums.  I think you agree with this and would have a great chat over a beer or two.

I hate to burst your bubble, but nothing you have said during the course of the last twelve months could even remotely be considered to constitute thinking outside the box. Your positions, and your responses, in the rare instances you actually respond rather than change the subject, are entirely predictable and come from within a very small box indeed.

Whataboutism followed by three straw men, for a total of four logical fallacies in a single line. Seven logical fallacies if you include the three false statements embedded in the straw men.

You cannot have a rational conversation with an irrational person.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 11:43:59 am by faberryman »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2021, 11:12:28 am »

Zoom meetings with patients are certainly a way to keep costs down.  It provides the means for doctors to "see" more patients and increase their billing with reduced effort.  Less support staff is needed.  But will it turn out to provide better health care?  How many issues are being missed initially because of these hands-off visits?

In the last few years, my need for a GP was just to get the regular blood work and xray tests.
The normal procedure for getting those tests, I had to visit the doctor in person twice - first to get a test requisition for the lab, and then a few days later another visit to get the test results. Very inefficient in my view.

Since March 2020, I still have to call him, but now that first phone call to his receptionist gets me a telephone consultation with the doctor, which in turn gets me the test requisition. I go to the lab and then one week later, I call the receptionist a second time, and she emails me the test results. I interpret the results myself and file the report to my Cumulative Test folder. For routine procedures, this is a much more efficient approach and avoids also sitting in the waiting room and contracting there a covid, flu or measles virus.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2021, 01:04:09 pm »

I hate to burst your bubble, but nothing you have said during the course of the last twelve months could even remotely be considered to constitute thinking outside the box. Your positions, and your responses, in the rare instances you actually respond rather than change the subject, are entirely predictable and come from within a very small box indeed.

You cannot have a rational conversation with an irrational person.
Unfirtuantely, you proved my point.  Can't resist insulting people.

faberryman

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2021, 01:07:30 pm »

Unfirtuantely, you proved my point.  Can't resist insulting people.

Not so much an insult as an observation that your self-assessment is mistaken.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2021, 01:09:58 pm »

In the last few years, my need for a GP was just to get the regular blood work and xray tests.
The normal procedure for getting those tests, I had to visit the doctor in person twice - first to get a test requisition for the lab, and then a few days later another visit to get the test results. Very inefficient in my view.

Since March 2020, I still have to call him, but now that first phone call to his receptionist gets me a telephone consultation with the doctor, which in turn gets me the test requisition. I go to the lab and then one week later, I call the receptionist a second time, and she emails me the test results. I interpret the results myself and file the report to my Cumulative Test folder. For routine procedures, this is a much more efficient approach and avoids also sitting in the waiting room and contracting there a covid, flu or measles virus.
We're both speculating.  We'll have to wait to see if problems are being missed because hands-on medical visits are being bypassed with Zoom. It will take time to accumulate the statistics. I believe the statistics will show we are.  The zoom visits may be OK in certain circumstances.  I suspect that with time, we'll figure out when it's OK and when it's better to do an office visit. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2021, 01:12:06 pm »

Not so much an insult as an observation that your self-assessment is mistaken.
You remind me of Canon lovers who insist Nikon owners are nuts and just don't get it.  :)

faberryman

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2021, 04:14:43 pm »

I enjoy the debate. It keeps the blood flowing. I like thinking out of the box.  I'm a contrarian.  It causes me to question my beliefs as well as yours and think of alternatives.  It's a way of being creative.  It helps my photography.  Sometimes I take a position that is contrary to my beliefs to help put the spotlight on issues.  If everyone is just agreeing with each other, everyone learns nothing. We're all preaching to the choir.  Attack my logic and facts.  That's fine.  But when you attack me with name-calling, the whole conversation degrades.  You're a smart person.  Most people here are also smart and make fine points.  It just would be better if we kept it intellectual rather than degrading into the depths as often happens on social forums.  I think you agree with this and would have a great chat over a beer or two.

I hate to burst your bubble, but nothing you have said during the course of the last twelve months could even remotely be considered to constitute thinking outside the box. Your positions, and your responses, in the rare instances you actually respond rather than change the subject, are entirely predictable and come from within a very small box indeed.

Whataboutism followed by three straw men, for a total of four logical fallacies in a single line. Seven logical fallacies if you include the three false statements embedded in the straw men.

You cannot have a rational conversation with an irrational person.

Unfirtuantely, you proved my point.  Can't resist insulting people.

Not so much an insult as an observation that your self-assessment is mistaken.

You remind me of Canon lovers who insist Nikon owners are nuts and just don't get it.  :)

If you had told me you were a fast miler in high school, and I asked you what your best time was, and you told me 6:23, it would not be an insult if I told you that you were not a fast miler. It would be an observation that your self-assessment was mistaken.

It is the same here. You have told us you like to think outside the box. I have read hundreds of your posts over the last twelve months and have seen no evidence of you thinking outside the box. What you say is predictable and repetitive, and arises out of a narrow range of thought. So it is not an insult when I tell you you don't think outside the box. It is an observation that your self-assessment is mistaken.

Your Canon/Nikon comment is a non sequitur. If that is what my comments remind you of, then you have completely missed the point, as is frequently the case.

No need to respond. I know what you are going to say, and I am done engaging with you. The weather is nice, I get my second vaccine dose on Friday, and I expect life to begin to return to normal. I wish everyone prosperity and good health.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 02:49:56 pm by faberryman »
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jeremyrh

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Re: Disruptive change in health care delivery
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2021, 06:53:56 am »

Oh, my God!!! You left nuts!!!

 ;D ;D ;D

Someone left nuts? Are they shooting squirrels?
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