Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: LesPalenik on March 17, 2021, 10:21:51 am
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Amazon is expanding its Amazon Care services which covers among other things online chats with doctors and prescription delivery services to other companies.
Even in Canada where health care is free, many doctors chose to interact with their patients over the phone rather than through in person visits. Initially introduced to minimize the spread of C19, this practice may become in the future a new normal. My GP has been closed for in person visits for a year now.
Amazon.com Inc is expanding its virtual healthcare service to other Washington-state employers starting Wednesday and to its own employees nationwide this summer, the company said in a press release. Piloted in September 2019 for staff near its Seattle headquarters, "Amazon Care" lets employees video-chat with doctors for diagnoses and referrals. It also facilitates housecalls and drug delivery in greater Seattle, a non-virtual benefit that Amazon said would be available in greater Washington, D.C and Baltimore in the coming months.
The news shows how the No. 2 U.S. private employer is diving further into healthcare, the latest industry it has aimed to disrupt after retail, enterprise technology and Hollywood.
Amazon is now delivering prescription medications through an online pharmacy it launched last year and earlier worked with Berkshire Hathaway Inc and JPMorgan Chase & Co on lowering care costs in a now-disbanded venture called Haven.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-starts-offering-healthcare-other-132114175.html
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Creative medical procedures will end in America if we have completely socialized medicine. There will be no incentive to reduce costs. Also, lack of competition will even eliminate many new experiments in medical care. No one will care enough.
Will Canada accept Amazon's help, processes, or even their ideas? Or will Canada just continue with outdated modes of care?
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Creative medical procedures will end in America if we have completely socialized medicine. There will be no incentive to reduce costs. Also, lack of competition will even eliminate many new experiments in medical care. No one will care enough.
Will Canada accept Amazon's help, processes, or even their ideas? Or will Canada just continue with outdated modes of care?
In many ways, Canada is already doing what Amazon Care is planning to do. As I mentioned, some doctors are using the opportunity during the pandemic to conduct their consultations and writing prescription orders by phone rather than meeting their pesky patients or hypochondriacs in person. It is much more productive and also more hygienic approach. Not to mention more billable visits.
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In many ways, Canada is already doing what Amazon Care is planning to do. As I mentioned, some doctors are using the opportunity during the pandemic to conduct their consultations and writing prescription orders by phone rather than meeting their pesky patients or hypochondriacs in person. It is much more productive and also more hygienic approach. Not to mention more billable visits.
I paid $160 for a virtual medical visit with my urologist. It was worth the money being on-line and not having to bear his finger examination. Of course, I don't know how much he learned by asking me how I felt?
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I was worried he was going to ask me to put my phone's camera between my legs.
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I paid $160 for a virtual medical visit with my urologist. It was worth the money being on-line and not having to bear his finger examination. Of course, I don't know how much he learned by asking me how I felt?
We can pee here for free and as much as we want.
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Creative medical procedures will end in America if we have completely socialized medicine. There will be no incentive to reduce costs. Also, lack of competition will even eliminate many new experiments in medical care. No one will care enough.
Will Canada accept Amazon's help, processes, or even their ideas? Or will Canada just continue with outdated modes of care?
Your ignorance knows no bounds. Everything you think you know about Canadian Health Care is wrong.
You should listen to this or read the guy's book but you won't, https://www.npr.org/2020/06/27/884307565/after-pushing-lies-former-cigna-executive-praises-canadas-health-care-system (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/27/884307565/after-pushing-lies-former-cigna-executive-praises-canadas-health-care-system).
If you go through all the things that he invented out of thin air about Canadian Health Care to further the business interests of US Insurance companies, it matches pretty closely all the imbecilic nonsense that we hear from many Americans about how badly off we are here in Canada.
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Your ignorance knows no bounds. Everything you think you know about Canadian Health Care is wrong.
You should listen to this or read the guy's book but you won't, https://www.npr.org/2020/06/27/884307565/after-pushing-lies-former-cigna-executive-praises-canadas-health-care-system (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/27/884307565/after-pushing-lies-former-cigna-executive-praises-canadas-health-care-system).
If you go through all the things that he invented out of thin air about Canadian Health Care to further the business interests of US Insurance companies, it matches pretty closely all the imbecilic nonsense that we hear from many Americans about how badly off we are here in Canada.
Instead of a canned, politically written report by liberal NPR that favors socialized medicine, I'd rather trust our own Les Palenik, a Canadian who's reported long long waits in Canada for testing and operations. He's reporting having to wait over a year for surgery. He also reported how operations completely shut down during covid. I don't believe they've recovered yet.
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but you won't
No time wasted in proving that theory to be correct.
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Instead of a canned, politically written report by liberal NPR that favors socialized medicine, I'd rather trust our own Les Palenik, a Canadian who's reported long long waits in Canada for testing and operations. He's reporting having to wait over a year for surgery. He also reported how operations completely shut down during covid. I don't believe they've recovered yet.
Meanwhile, Alan is receiving his socialized medicine under Medicare.
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Instead of a canned, politically written report by liberal NPR that favors socialized medicine, I'd rather trust our own Les Palenik, a Canadian who's reported long long waits in Canada for testing and operations. He's reporting having to wait over a year for surgery. He also reported how operations completely shut down during covid. I don't believe they've recovered yet.
As far as I know, also many hospitals in USA stopped or postponed elective and cancer surgeries during the pandemic.
You have to weigh the waiting times against cost. It's true that we have to wait much longer for some surgeries, but most of them are free. It's similar to Amazon Prime. The Prime members receive their goods faster and get a few other perks, but it's worth to point out that in USA the annual Amazon Prime membership costs less than a consultation with an urologist.
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Meanwhile, Alan is receiving his socialized medicine under Medicare.
Well, yes and no. I still have a choice of doctors. If I want a specific doctor who does not accept Medicare, I have to pay 100% out of pocket. I also paid into Medicare all my life. So it was never free. I still pay monthly as the cost for Medicare is deducted from my Social Security. You may not realize this. But besides the 1.45% you and equal amount your employer pays, after you go on Medicare, they charge monthly rates. It starts at $149 a month. The cost goes up depending on how much you report in income on your tax return. Additionally, you are often charged by your doctor 15% more than Medicare covers for which you are responsible to pay your doctor. Medicare does not pay for dental or most drug costs. I pay for a supplemental insurance plan that covers a portion of those non-medicare covered expenses.
Nothing is free. Medicare or no Medicare. I would have preferred the latter but I had no choice.
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As far as I know, also many hospitals in USA stopped or postponed elective and cancer surgeries during the pandemic.
You have to weigh the waiting times against cost. It's true that we have to wait much longer for some surgeries, but most of them are free. It's similar to Amazon Prime. The Prime members receive their goods faster and get a few other perks, but it's worth to point out that in USA the annual Amazon Prime membership costs less than a consultation with an urologist.
Les, you know that nothing is free. How could that be? You pay for it with higher taxes. VAT, sales, income, etc.
Regarding Amazon, they at least deliver to my door. My urologist only would see me on Zoom.
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Les, you know that nothing is free. How could that be? You pay for it with higher taxes. VAT, sales, income, etc.
In the U.S. we pay for it with higher insurance premiums, more than double the average in Canada, to cover insurance companies advertising and marketing costs; executive salaries; a staff of claims agents looking for ways to deny claims to increase profits and shareholder returns; increased complexity for healthcare providers navigating different benefit coverage and claims procedures from various insurance providers and policies; reduced access and affordability; higher administrative costs; higher drug prices; higher percentage of GDP spent on healthcare with less coverage; lower life expectancy; higher out of pocket costs with fewer physician visits and higher rates of hospitalizations from preventable causes; etc...
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Les, you know that nothing is free. How could that be? You pay for it with higher taxes. VAT, sales, income, etc.
Regarding Amazon, they at least deliver to my door. My urologist only would see me on Zoom.
Speaking of Amazon, I'd like to use this opportunity to steer back to the OP.
The new "Amazon Care" division could quite effectively fill also the role of online or phone consultations and tests. First, they would have Alexa call you and inquire about your symptoms, and then they could deploy a drone to deliver you the right medications and pickup your urine sample on the same trip. All fully automated, while the urologist rests in Bermuda. Talk about a deluxe service and huge cost reductions.
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Instead of a canned, politically written report by liberal NPR that favors socialized medicine, I'd rather trust our own Les Palenik, a Canadian who's reported long long waits in Canada for testing and operations. He's reporting having to wait over a year for surgery. He also reported how operations completely shut down during covid. I don't believe they've recovered yet.
You literally know nothing about this subject and have swallowed insurance company propaganda hook, line and sinker. Follow the money, do your own research.
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Les, you know that nothing is free. How could that be? You pay for it with higher taxes. VAT, sales, income, etc.
Regarding Amazon, they at least deliver to my door. My urologist only would see me on Zoom.
Personally, I think that the real reason that the US insurance system doesn't want universal health care is because they'd prefer it if poor sick people died quicker. What's more useless than a sick person who can't make the premiums? The insurance industry exists to make a profit, not pay out claims. Follow the money, do your own research. :)
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Personally, I think that the real reason that the US insurance system doesn't want universal health care is because they'd prefer it if poor sick people died quicker. What's more useless than a sick person who can't make the premiums? The insurance industry exists to make a profit, not pay out claims. Follow the money, do your own research. :)
Wendell Potter, a vice president at Cigna, — one of the largest health insurance corporations in the U.S., with revenue exceeding $150 billion — has some interesting insight from the inside of the business.
The health care scare - August 6, 2020
I sold Americans a lie about Canadian medicine. Now we’re paying the price.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/:https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/08/06/health-insurance-canada-lie (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ALuh7Kxr0QoJ:https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/08/06/health-insurance-canada-lie)
Excerpts from article...
In my prior life as an insurance executive, it was my job to deceive Americans about their health care. I misled people to protect profits. In fact, one of my major objectives, as a corporate propagandist, was to do my part to “enhance shareholder value.” That work contributed directly to a climate in which fewer people are insured, which has shaped our nation’s struggle against the coronavirus, a condition that we can fight only if everyone is willing and able to get medical treatment. Had spokesmen like me not been paid to obscure important truths about the differences between the U.S. and Canadian health-care systems, tens of thousands of Americans who have died during the pandemic might still be alive.
The most effective myth we perpetuated — the industry trots it out whenever major reform is proposed — is that Canadians and people in other single-payer countries have to endure long waits for needed care. Just last year, in a statement submitted to a congressional committee for a hearing on the Medicare for All Act of 2019, AHIP maintained that “patients would pay more to wait longer for worse care” under a single-payer system.
While it’s true that Canadians sometimes have to wait weeks or months for elective procedures (knee replacements are often cited), the truth is that they do not have to wait at all for the vast majority of medical services. And, contrary to another myth I used to peddle — that Canadian doctors are flocking to the United States — there are more doctors per 1,000 people in Canada than here. Canadians see their doctors an average of 6.8 times a year, compared with just four times a year in this country.
Most important, no one in Canada is turned away from doctors because of a lack of funds, and Canadians can get tested and treated for the coronavirus without fear of receiving a budget-busting medical bill. That undoubtedly is one of the reasons Canada’s covid-19 death rate is so much lower than ours. In America, exorbitant bills are a defining feature of our health-care system. Despite the assurances from President Trump and members of Congress that covid-19 patients will not be charged for testing or treatment, they are on the hook for big bills, according to numerous reports.
That is not the case in Canada, where there are no co-pays, deductibles or coinsurance for covered benefits. Care is free at the point of service. And those laid off in Canada don’t face the worry of losing their health insurance. In the United States, by contrast, more than 40 million have lost their jobs during this pandemic, and millions of them — along with their families — also lost their coverage.
Then there’s quality of care. By numerous measures, it is better in Canada. Some examples: Canada has far lower rates than the United States of hospitalizations from preventable causes like diabetes (almost twice as common here) and hypertension (more than eight times as common). And even though Canada spends less than half what we do per capita on health care, life expectancy there is 82 years, compared with 78.6 years in the United States.
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More health care facts when compared costs and quality of health care in US and other countries:
- The U.S. spends more on health care as a share of the economy — nearly twice as much as the average OECD country — yet has the lowest life expectancy and highest suicide rates among the 11 nations.
- The U.S. has the highest chronic disease burden and an obesity rate that is two times higher than the OECD average.
- Americans had fewer physician visits than peers in most countries, which may be related to a low supply of physicians in the U.S.
- Americans use some expensive technologies, such as MRIs, and specialized procedures, such as hip replacements, more often than our peers.
- The U.S. outperforms its peers in terms of preventive measures — it has the one of the highest rates of breast cancer screening among women ages 50 to 69 and the second-highest rate (after the U.K.) of flu vaccinations among people age 65 and older.
- Compared to peer nations, the U.S. has among the highest number of hospitalizations from preventable causes and the highest rate of avoidable deaths.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
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Oh, my God!!! You left nuts!!!
;D ;D ;D
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Amazon is expanding its Amazon Care services which covers among other things online chats with doctors and prescription delivery services to other companies.
Even in Canada where health care is free, many doctors chose to interact with their patients over the phone rather than through in person visits. Initially introduced to minimize the spread of C19, this practice may become in the future a new normal. My GP has been closed for in person visits for a year now.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-starts-offering-healthcare-other-132114175.html
Employing new technologies to deliver health care has taken a while to get off the ground but here in Ottawa at the family clinic we deal with and the interactions with local hospitals, integration of services is pretty good. It's not surprising that adopting new procedures has taken a while, health is very decentralized, large numbers of independent businesses after all. If Amazon is introducing tools to facilitate this, good for them, but it was happening anyway and has been for years.
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... Will Canada accept Amazon's help, processes, or even their ideas? Or will Canada just continue with outdated modes of care?
I only just saw this early entry of yours on this topic. You are spectacularly ignorant on a wide variety of topics, but you may have reached your apex with this one. My congratulations, it can't be easy being this wrong this often.
I've asked you this before, which alt-right conspiracy wacko web site do you get your sound bites from? If you simply gave us that link, you could save yourself some typing time.
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Amazon is expanding its Amazon Care services which covers among other things online chats with doctors and prescription delivery services to other companies.
Even in Canada where health care is free, many doctors chose to interact with their patients over the phone rather than through in person visits. Initially introduced to minimize the spread of C19, this practice may become in the future a new normal. My GP has been closed for in person visits for a year now.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-starts-offering-healthcare-other-132114175.html
Zoom meetings with patients are certainly a way to keep costs down. It provides the means for doctors to "see" more patients and increase their billing with reduced effort. Less support staff is needed. But will it turn out to provide better health care? How many issues are being missed initially because of these hands-off visits?
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I only just saw this early entry of yours on this topic. You are spectacularly ignorant on a wide variety of topics, but you may have reached your apex with this one. My congratulations, it can't be easy being this wrong this often.
I've asked you this before, which alt-right conspiracy wacko web site do you get your sound bites from? If you simply gave us that link, you could save yourself some typing time.
Why does the left always have trouble listening to opposing viewpoints? Why do they always want to shut them down? What are they afraid of?
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Why does the left always have trouble listening to opposing viewpoints? Why do they always want to shut them down? What are they afraid of?
Whataboutism followed by three straw men, for a total of four logical fallacies in a single line. Seven logical fallacies if you include the three false statements embedded in the straw men.
One well might wonder why you never answer any questions, but always change the subject instead.
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Why does the left always have trouble listening to opposing viewpoints? Why do they always want to shut them down? What are they afraid of?
"left" ? Put away the dog whistle, please.
Disagreeing with you is not the same thing as trying to shut you down. When did I, or anyone, try to shut you down? You seem to be saying that disagreeing with you is trying to "shut you down". Why would you think that?
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"left" ? Put away the dog whistle, please.
Disagreeing with you is not the same thing as trying to shut you down. When did I, or anyone, try to shut you down? You seem to be saying that disagreeing with you is trying to "shut you down". Why would you think that?
When you use an insulting dog whistle like alt-right conspiracy wing wacko site and call me ignorant, your close-mindedness and hatred clearly shows. That's your refusal to address intellectual thought that is contrary to your views. It's a habit of the left.
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When you use an insulting dog whistle like alt-right conspiracy wing wacko site and call me ignorant, your close-mindedness and hatred clearly shows. That's your refusal to address intellectual thought that is contrary to your views. It's a habit of the left.
In the strictest sense, that is true. But the nonsense you often spew about things that you obviously don't know anything about is beyond the pale. And when people point out what was wrong with your position, you double down and call them "leftists" or some other nonsense. This is no longer interesting.
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In the strictest sense, that is true. But the nonsense you often spew about things that you obviously don't know anything about is beyond the pale. And when people point out what was wrong with your position, you double down and call them "leftists" or some other nonsense. This is no longer interesting.
I enjoy the debate. It keeps the blood flowing. I like thinking out of the box. I'm a contrarian. It causes me to question my beliefs as well as yours and think of alternatives. It's a way of being creative. It helps my photography. Sometimes I take a position that is contrary to my beliefs to help put the spotlight on issues. If everyone is just agreeing with each other, everyone learns nothing. We're all preaching to the choir. Attack my logic and facts. That's fine. But when you attack me with name-calling, the whole conversation degrades. You're a smart person. Most people here are also smart and make fine points. It just would be better if we kept it intellectual rather than degrading into the depths as often happens on social forums. I think you agree with this and would have a great chat over a beer or two.
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I enjoy the debate. It keeps the blood flowing. I like thinking out of the box. I'm a contrarian. It causes me to question my beliefs as well as yours and think of alternatives. It's a way of being creative. It helps my photography. Sometimes I take a position that is contrary to my beliefs to help put the spotlight on issues. If everyone is just agreeing with each other, everyone learns nothing. We're all preaching to the choir. Attack my logic and facts. That's fine. But when you attack me with name-calling, the whole conversation degrades. You're a smart person. Most people here are also smart and make fine points. It just would be better if we kept it intellectual rather than degrading into the depths as often happens on social forums. I think you agree with this and would have a great chat over a beer or two.
I hate to burst your bubble, but nothing you have said during the course of the last twelve months could even remotely be considered to constitute thinking outside the box. Your positions, and your responses, in the rare instances you actually respond rather than change the subject, are entirely predictable and come from within a very small box indeed.
Whataboutism followed by three straw men, for a total of four logical fallacies in a single line. Seven logical fallacies if you include the three false statements embedded in the straw men.
You cannot have a rational conversation with an irrational person.
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Zoom meetings with patients are certainly a way to keep costs down. It provides the means for doctors to "see" more patients and increase their billing with reduced effort. Less support staff is needed. But will it turn out to provide better health care? How many issues are being missed initially because of these hands-off visits?
In the last few years, my need for a GP was just to get the regular blood work and xray tests.
The normal procedure for getting those tests, I had to visit the doctor in person twice - first to get a test requisition for the lab, and then a few days later another visit to get the test results. Very inefficient in my view.
Since March 2020, I still have to call him, but now that first phone call to his receptionist gets me a telephone consultation with the doctor, which in turn gets me the test requisition. I go to the lab and then one week later, I call the receptionist a second time, and she emails me the test results. I interpret the results myself and file the report to my Cumulative Test folder. For routine procedures, this is a much more efficient approach and avoids also sitting in the waiting room and contracting there a covid, flu or measles virus.
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I hate to burst your bubble, but nothing you have said during the course of the last twelve months could even remotely be considered to constitute thinking outside the box. Your positions, and your responses, in the rare instances you actually respond rather than change the subject, are entirely predictable and come from within a very small box indeed.
You cannot have a rational conversation with an irrational person.
Unfirtuantely, you proved my point. Can't resist insulting people.
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Unfirtuantely, you proved my point. Can't resist insulting people.
Not so much an insult as an observation that your self-assessment is mistaken.
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In the last few years, my need for a GP was just to get the regular blood work and xray tests.
The normal procedure for getting those tests, I had to visit the doctor in person twice - first to get a test requisition for the lab, and then a few days later another visit to get the test results. Very inefficient in my view.
Since March 2020, I still have to call him, but now that first phone call to his receptionist gets me a telephone consultation with the doctor, which in turn gets me the test requisition. I go to the lab and then one week later, I call the receptionist a second time, and she emails me the test results. I interpret the results myself and file the report to my Cumulative Test folder. For routine procedures, this is a much more efficient approach and avoids also sitting in the waiting room and contracting there a covid, flu or measles virus.
We're both speculating. We'll have to wait to see if problems are being missed because hands-on medical visits are being bypassed with Zoom. It will take time to accumulate the statistics. I believe the statistics will show we are. The zoom visits may be OK in certain circumstances. I suspect that with time, we'll figure out when it's OK and when it's better to do an office visit.
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Not so much an insult as an observation that your self-assessment is mistaken.
You remind me of Canon lovers who insist Nikon owners are nuts and just don't get it. :)
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I enjoy the debate. It keeps the blood flowing. I like thinking out of the box. I'm a contrarian. It causes me to question my beliefs as well as yours and think of alternatives. It's a way of being creative. It helps my photography. Sometimes I take a position that is contrary to my beliefs to help put the spotlight on issues. If everyone is just agreeing with each other, everyone learns nothing. We're all preaching to the choir. Attack my logic and facts. That's fine. But when you attack me with name-calling, the whole conversation degrades. You're a smart person. Most people here are also smart and make fine points. It just would be better if we kept it intellectual rather than degrading into the depths as often happens on social forums. I think you agree with this and would have a great chat over a beer or two.
I hate to burst your bubble, but nothing you have said during the course of the last twelve months could even remotely be considered to constitute thinking outside the box. Your positions, and your responses, in the rare instances you actually respond rather than change the subject, are entirely predictable and come from within a very small box indeed.
Whataboutism followed by three straw men, for a total of four logical fallacies in a single line. Seven logical fallacies if you include the three false statements embedded in the straw men.
You cannot have a rational conversation with an irrational person.
Unfirtuantely, you proved my point. Can't resist insulting people.
Not so much an insult as an observation that your self-assessment is mistaken.
You remind me of Canon lovers who insist Nikon owners are nuts and just don't get it. :)
If you had told me you were a fast miler in high school, and I asked you what your best time was, and you told me 6:23, it would not be an insult if I told you that you were not a fast miler. It would be an observation that your self-assessment was mistaken.
It is the same here. You have told us you like to think outside the box. I have read hundreds of your posts over the last twelve months and have seen no evidence of you thinking outside the box. What you say is predictable and repetitive, and arises out of a narrow range of thought. So it is not an insult when I tell you you don't think outside the box. It is an observation that your self-assessment is mistaken.
Your Canon/Nikon comment is a non sequitur. If that is what my comments remind you of, then you have completely missed the point, as is frequently the case.
No need to respond. I know what you are going to say, and I am done engaging with you. The weather is nice, I get my second vaccine dose on Friday, and I expect life to begin to return to normal. I wish everyone prosperity and good health.
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Oh, my God!!! You left nuts!!!
;D ;D ;D
Someone left nuts? Are they shooting squirrels?