Epson Hot Press ink receptor coating issue

[Stephen G]

I'm writing to share my experience with recent rolls of Epson Hot Press Natural. Not to whinge and moan, but in the hope that the info somehow goes up the chain and reaches someone in quality control at Epson. I know of no other way to achieve this. My paper supplier tells me it's a dead end. He doesn't have a way of feeding back.

I've been printing with Epson Hot Press Natural for about 10 years now. Lovely paper, and a firm favourite with my clients. Last year, in about the first half of the year, I received a few rolls that were very badly coated. It was obvious. Ink pooled and spread and prints were awful. I sent the rolls back as unusable. Then in the second half of the year the situation new stock came in, much improved, and I could use the paper again with confidence.

Now, with two recent rolls the situation seems to have regressed. I'm not getting the obvious ink-pooling but when I print smooth dark tones (think gloomy grey-blue cloudy skies) I'm seeing a very ugly, very clear mottling on the prints. (It's visible in the attached phone shots, but it's much worse in real life) It's also visible on Epson Cold Press, but to a lesser degree. It's not visible on the other 300g paper I've got to use here: Felix Schoeller True Rag Etching. 

I print with an Epson P9000. I carefully test media settings for all my papers, and build profiles once I'm sure I've got the media settings right.

Very similar experiences being reported here:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4380614

[mearussi]

If you're getting mottling then the coating isn't absorbing all of the ink. Will your driver allow you to selectively lower the density of the black channel? Also, have you been keeping track of the lot numbers of the good and bad rolls?

[Stephen G]

Yes, agreed. No, I don't have that control in my driver. Sadly, no, I didn't record the lot numbers last year, but I will record them for the three rolls I currently have.

I could have gone through a number of bad rolls in recent months without realizing it. Most of the printing I do on this paper is pretty low coverage: botanical art repros. So the issue is less likely to present itself

[mearussi]

I hate to say this but you might want to switch over to a paper company that has better customer service. I've also had emulsion problems in the past both with Canson and Breathing Color and both were very good about addressing the problem wanting me to send them photos, samples and lot numbers and both sent me replacement rolls right away. I'm sure both would have a functional equivalent for Epson Hot Press.

[Stephen G]

This is the plan. I have to keep using Epson Hot Press for a while and gradually convince my clients that they need to change to some thing more consistent.

Neither Canson nor Breathing Color are represented here in South Africa. I'd be all over them if they were. And I don't have enough volume to warrant importing rolls myself. I'll be looking at Hahnemuhle, Felix Schoeller and maybe Innova too. All I need is a paper that's smooth, 300g, natural white and CONSISTENT. I should be able to find something.

[mearussi]

This is the plan. I have to keep using Epson Hot Press for a while and gradually convince my clients that they need to change to some thing more consistent.

Neither Canson nor Breathing Color are represented here in South Africa. I'd be all over them if they were. And I don't have enough volume to warrant importing rolls myself. I'll be looking at Hahnemuhle, Felix Schoeller and maybe Innova too. All I need is a paper that's smooth, 300g, natural white and CONSISTENT. I should be able to find something.

I've used both Hahnemuhle and Innova and both have excellent products and I've never had any issues with their quality control.

[deanwork]

I never used much of the Epson hot press but when I did it worked ok in years past. I believe they are coated in Korea, or at least they were.

I had bad mottling and poor ink absorption with several papers made by Innova years ago and after that experience I’ll never even try them again. It was nasty.

The natural smooth paper I use a lot of these days in rolls is Moab Entrada Natural. It’s the only rag media I ever use that’s not coated in Germany ( think it may be coated for Legion in Italy ) .  They just raised their prices a little but still far below the price point of the others. It’s very consistent. It’s about the same white point as hot press natural. I would buy some smal sheets and check it out. It’s also dual sided, which is great for making tests and lays flatter due to the dual coating. I love it.

John

I've used both Hahnemuhle and Innova and both have excellent products and I've never had any issues with their quality control.

[Stephen G]

The Epson Hot and Cold Press packaging has always said 'Made in Italy', but it's not really important where they are made or coated.

Moab is another brand not available to me in SA. In terms of market size we're basically a small outpost of Europe.

I agree that Hahnemuhle has some great papers, and I've heard that they are very consistent, but they don't have a smooth fine-art that is OBA-free. Photo-Rag comes closest, but I'd rather not deal with OBAs at all. It would also be hard for me to move from 15m rolls to 12m rolls, the step back in economy would make me twitch.

[JRSmit]

Usually this mottlong is caused by : old batch  , poor quality batch, low temperature.
To my knowledge this Epson paper is no longer produced.
So probably old stock.

[Stephen G]

Very interesting. My paper supplier said something very vague about a replacement / new paper from Epson coming. I must quizz him some more.

I can rule out low temp, so maybe it is just old stock

[deanwork]

You can’t get Epson Legacy Fiber or Canson Rag Photographique?

Yea, a Hahnemuhle rep was over here years ago and I asked him why they couldn’t offer their fine papers with pigment whiteners. He said because of some EU environmental restrictions they couldn’t use them because the manufacturing process residue discharged pollutants in the ground water or rivers
S or something. I didn’t argue with him but it didn’t make sense to me since all the Canson papers with pigment mineral whiteners are coated in Germany too! So are the Epson clones.

Having said that, if you put Hah. Photorag 308 under a black light, it doesn’t glow much like the other oba papers. The tests show up pretty well. But the newer Photorag Ultra Smooth does, and it’s coating is thin and fragile in my opinion. The Canson surfaces are much more durable and sharper than either.

I’ve been using the Hah Museum Etching this week after years of not using it. It’s a really fine paper with no oba. It seems sharper and more durable than the others. And it’s pretty white for a natural paper. But yea, not a smooth paper. For me the rolls are 10 feet shorter than Canson for the same price. So, I’ll use more Edition Etching for large prints. Museum Etching is thicker.

John

The Epson Hot and Cold Press packaging has always said 'Made in Italy', but it's not really important where they are made or coated.

Moab is another brand not available to me in SA. In terms of market size we're basically a small outpost of Europe.

I agree that Hahnemuhle has some great papers, and I've heard that they are very consistent, but they don't have a smooth fine-art that is OBA-free. Photo-Rag comes closest, but I'd rather not deal with OBAs at all. It would also be hard for me to move from 15m rolls to 12m rolls, the step back in economy would make me twitch.

[Arlen]

Usually this mottlong is caused by : old batch  , poor quality batch, low temperature.
To my knowledge this Epson paper is no longer produced.
So probably old stock.

The only thing that I've been able to find about discontinuance of Epson Hot Press and Cold Press papers is in a press release by Epson UK from 2018. And that is in a tiny footnote at the bottom, which says "2. These new fine art papers will replace the existing Hot Press and Cold Press products which will be discontinued three months after the introduction of the new papers."

https://www.epson.co.uk/insights/article/7246

[Stephen G]

You can’t get Epson Legacy Fiber or Canson Rag Photographique?

The Canson surfaces are much more durable and sharper than either.

Nope, not in SA

And yes, this is what I've seen too, using the FS True Rag Etching (an Edition Etching clone I believe)

[unesco]

I love(ed) Hot Press, the deepest black out of any FA matt  paper I've ever had. And it allows for double side printing.

Epson has its new Cotton Smooth Bright/Natural 300 that substitutes Hot Press  line, it gives nice results, no curling after print but black level is far from its predecessor.

[Stephen G]

The sheets could do D/S, yes, but I never played with that. I've only ever used the rolls.

Thank you for the name of the paper Epson has brought out to substitute Hot/Cold press. A bit of searching and I can see that it has been around a while, but I just never heard about it. Now to find out if it is actually being brought in to SA

[Arlen]

Interesting. These "new" Epson papers (actually introduced in 2018, it seems) appear to be available mainly in Europe, and not the U.S. Here, the older Hot Press Natural/Bright papers are still widely available.

[unesco]

Interesting. These "new" Epson papers (actually introduced in 2018, it seems) appear to be available mainly in Europe, and not the U.S. Here, the older Hot Press Natural/Bright papers are still widely available.

Lucky you. Especially, that Hot Press was 2x more expensive in Europe compared to the rest of the world.

[Arlen]

By the way, Stephen, I did have a box of 8.5 x 11 Epson Hot Press Natural that I bought in 2019 that behaved the same way you described. Every sheet in the box. I talked to Epson support, and they didn't have a good explanation. I'm not a large volume user of this paper, but I have been through several boxes since then, and none of them had that problem. So I wrote if off as a bad batch.

[NeilPrintArt]

I am in the same part of the world as the OP and I have also had intermittent issues with the coating of Hot Press Natural. And these are not isolated or localized incidents, some searching online (and this forum) will come up with a bunch of reports of other users with the same problems. It's a great pity because its a wonderful paper with a really strong black point that works brilliantly for B&W - when you get a roll that has been properly coated! And I haven't been able to find a satisfactory replacement, given the limited options available in this part of the world. Also heard rumours that t has been discontinued.

[Stephen G]

Two interesting bits of info:

First: I needed some Hot Press to finish off a job so my paper supplier somehow pulled a rabbit out of the hat and delivered a 24" roll. I'm not 100% sure of this but I think this roll dates back to 2016, or earlier. There was a delivery note inside the box that was dated Feb 2016. (I reckon it's a returned roll that has been lying around in a store room somewhere.) The paper off this roll is noticeably thicker/stiffer, and slightly warmer than the Hot Press I've been using recently. And it takes heavy inking very well, with none of the ugly mottling that started this thread. Hot Press how I remember it. Batch no. is I0EF01064A, if anyone knows how to turn that into a production date.

Second: I've been profiling and testing Felix Schoeller True Rag Smooth 310g this weekend. It is a lovely paper: smooth, no OBAs, bright whitepoint that is close to neutral, excellent ink-loading and gamut. I'm pretty sure I've found my replacement.