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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 269508 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1720 on: September 17, 2021, 01:02:42 pm »

Sometimes, it's a way of gently pointing out falsehoods and mis/disinformation.  (as opposed to shouting "LIAR!")

"Beliefs" are not equivalent to facts.


Humor is fine.  But some of it gets downright mean and personally insulting.  That isn't necessary.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1721 on: September 17, 2021, 01:03:38 pm »

Bullshit....

What is indeed bullsheet is the constant misinterpretation of what I said about the 60K figure. Since you all are native English speakers, I shouldn't need to explain what the statement "wake me up..." is supposed to mean. It doesn't mean that I think it will not surpass 60K. It contains no falsehood or misinformation. It simply means that I will start paying attention to it if/when it surpasses that threshold.

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1722 on: September 17, 2021, 05:00:25 pm »

Bullshit. It was clear early on to lots of people that the rate of illness and death was greater than usual flu. I only remember silly posts about how only xxx had died, so why worry, even though that xxx represented the number of deaths in a very short period of time and that it was more than obvious that things were accelerating. You can try to rewrite history to suit yourself but no one is buying it.
I seem to recall that when Trump shut down travel from China in Jan 2020, democrats called him racist and Biden called him xenophobic.  Were they "silly"?  The point is everyone was guessing.  How could we not?  As Yogi Berra claimed, "It's hard to predict things, especially the future."

chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1723 on: September 17, 2021, 05:03:45 pm »

+1

No matter how much he tries to ignore it.

Well he stuck his neck out like the turkey for Thanks Giving...now he eats crow rather than turkey.
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chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1724 on: September 17, 2021, 05:06:21 pm »

What is indeed bullsheet is the constant misinterpretation of what I said about the 60K figure. Since you all are native English speakers, I shouldn't need to explain what the statement "wake me up..." is supposed to mean. It doesn't mean that I think it will not surpass 60K. It contains no falsehood or misinformation. It simply means that I will start paying attention to it if/when it surpasses that threshold.

Bullshit. You were constantly down playing Covid at those times saying the flu was much worse...now you are double talking...trying to save grace. Too late...chicken has fled the coop.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1725 on: September 17, 2021, 05:12:59 pm »

Bullshit. You were constantly down playing Covid at those times saying the flu was much worse...now you are double talking...trying to save grace. Too late...chicken has fled the coop.
Are you gloating that there were more deaths than people hoped for?

chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1726 on: September 17, 2021, 05:14:52 pm »

You really think you said something smart?

Got your attention...but then that does not need to be that smart.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1727 on: September 17, 2021, 05:19:35 pm »

So certain someone really went after me in months past for implying that the teacher's unions, not science, was dictating the school reopening guidance.  Welp ...

Critics slam CDC after teachers union influences guidelines: 'Based in politics and not science'

This is why people dont trust our health experts.  They have given up being scientists for being politicians.   

I am going to get vaccinated this week, and then I am done paying attention to the little amount of things I am still doing. 
The whole Covid thing has been politicized from the very beginning with everyone taking up sides including many of the scientists.

chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1728 on: September 17, 2021, 05:23:06 pm »

Are you gloating that there were more deaths than people hoped for?

No...just calling out someone who down played Covid at every turn he could...even going out and claiming he's not interested until we reach 60K deaths...then he'll wake up.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1729 on: September 17, 2021, 05:37:14 pm »

No...just calling out someone who down played Covid at every turn he could...even going out and claiming he's not interested until we reach 60K deaths...then he'll wake up.
I made similar claims.  No one was recognizing that we basically ignored flu deaths every year that number in the tens of thousands annually. So the question was were we overstating Covid risks?  It was a fair question to ask at that early time because there were demands for the shutdown of the entire economy which had dangerous problems on its own.  Millions of people were going to be pout out of work with businesses failing across the country.  Of course in retrospect, it turned out very bad, both healthwise and for the economy.  But asking a pertinent question before you shut down an entire economy, which was being recommended at the time the point was made, is certainly valid. It should be discussed and considered.  Demeaning people who made the point is wrong. 

chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1730 on: September 17, 2021, 05:47:16 pm »

Demeaning people who made the point is wrong.

Really Alan, you know who we are discussing here. Talk about demeaning people...he's right up there in the lead. I thought you were wiser than that.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1731 on: September 17, 2021, 06:16:57 pm »

I made similar claims.  No one was recognizing that we basically ignored flu deaths every year that number in the tens of thousands annually. So the question was were we overstating Covid risks?  It was a fair question to ask at that early time because there were demands for the shutdown of the entire economy which had dangerous problems on its own.  Millions of people were going to be pout out of work with businesses failing across the country.  Of course in retrospect, it turned out very bad, both healthwise and for the economy.  But asking a pertinent question before you shut down an entire economy, which was being recommended at the time the point was made, is certainly valid. It should be discussed and considered.  Demeaning people who made the point is wrong.

Actually, many experts were predicting right from the outset that Covid is much more dangerous than a flu. Some people didn't listen or didn't understand the important differences between the flu and Covid.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1732 on: September 17, 2021, 06:30:56 pm »

I made similar claims.  No one was recognizing that we basically ignored flu deaths every year that number in the tens of thousands annually. ...

Maybe the avg man on the street, including you, didn't know about annual flu deaths, but it's silly to say that the people whose job it is to monitor these things, plan for them, and look for new outlier cases didn't know. They knew almost immediately as the literature on the subject is starting to show and if you cared to read some of the articles people have posted links to or listened to podcasts that have been provided. Just because you (or others) were not aware, does NOT mean that people weren't aware. In particular, people in authority knew and had been alerted very early on, many of them just chose not to act.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1733 on: September 17, 2021, 06:38:43 pm »

Trump shut down travel from China in Jan 2020

No he didn't. There were restrictions, not a shutdown. Travel continued from China at a reduced level. In any event, despite numerous self-congratulatory statements by Trump, it was too late to prevent the spread as the virus was already in the U.S.— as well as having already spread to other countries from which travel remained unrestricted.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1734 on: September 17, 2021, 06:49:50 pm »

Oh, please:

Even the "fact checkers" agree that it is "half true" (they usually use the term "mostly false," so using "half true" is quite a compliment coming from them):

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/29/steve-bannon/did-fauci-tell-us-not-worry-about-coronavirus/

Yeah, right... as any good politician he was using a double speak, a cop-out "right now."

Jan 21:

Quote
But this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about."

Jan 26:

Quote
On Jan. 26, Fauci gave an interview to John Catsimatidis, a syndicated radio host in New York. "What can you tell the American people about what’s been going on?" Catsimatidis asked. "Should they be scared?"

"I don’t think so," Fauci said. "The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It’s a very, very low risk to the United States, but it’s something we, as public health officials, need to take very seriously."




Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1735 on: September 17, 2021, 06:53:48 pm »

Maybe the avg man on the street, including you, didn't know about annual flu deaths, but it's silly to say that the people whose job it is to monitor these things, plan for them, and look for new outlier cases didn't know. They knew almost immediately as the literature on the subject is starting to show and if you cared to read some of the articles people have posted links to or listened to podcasts that have been provided. Just because you (or others) were not aware, does NOT mean that people weren't aware. In particular, people in authority knew and had been alerted very early on, many of them just chose not to act.
The point was society never shut down the economy because of the flu or wear masks like they do in Asia.  The point I was making, to ask the shutdown of an economy so early, would naturally create much opposition. 

Right now in NYC, 1/4 of the storefronts, shops, eateries, restaurants, etc.  in the financial district are shut; 1/3 in Midtown.   Politicians were faced with the decision of creating such economic problems or wait and see.  That's hard to do early on when the deaths were less than the common flu.  It's not unreasonable to want to wait. 

It's not like the Democrats had the right idea either from the beginning.  Like I said Biden called Trump xenophobic and many Democrats called him a racist for shutting down travel from China.  So it took everyone a while to understand the danger.  Even now there are arguments about how much things should be shut down, indoor eating, etc.  I still believe that long after COovid is a memory, our economic problems caused by it and the shutdown will long be with us.  Millions out of work, businesses shut down, inflation causing prices to escalate hurting the poor and lower-income the most.  It's long from over.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1736 on: September 17, 2021, 06:55:52 pm »

we basically ignored flu deaths every year that number in the tens of thousands annually.

Baloney. The exact opposite is true. It is precisely because of government planning and preparations made many years in advance, for a possible pandemic flu outbreak, that vaccines were available and produced so quickly for COVID.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/pdf/pandemic-influenza-strategy-2005.pdf

The link above documents the planning and preparations which boosted the sped up efforts in the development of advanced vaccine technology and established BARDA to streamline and accelerate the production of vaccines.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1737 on: September 17, 2021, 07:00:23 pm »

No he didn't. There were restrictions, not a shutdown. Travel continued from China at a reduced level. In any event, despite numerous self-congratulatory statements by Trump, it was too late to prevent the spread as the virus was already in the U.S.— as well as having already spread to other countries from which travel remained unrestricted.
Restriction?  Shutdown?  A distinction without a difference.  The point is Trump acted long before Biden and the Democrats.  In any case, what's your point? China hid the fact about the disease for at least six weeks.  They knew about it in December or November of 2019, maybe earlier. They told nobody and hid the problem from the world.  It was during that time that infected Chinese circulated in their travels through Europe and Canada and the US before Trump and everyone else knew about it.  How's that Trump's fault.  Why aren't you blaming the Chinese?

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1738 on: September 17, 2021, 07:02:39 pm »

The whole Covid thing has been politicized from the very beginning

largely the result of people that used to parrot the line Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness; but who now believe only the latter two are important.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1739 on: September 17, 2021, 07:04:22 pm »

The point is Trump acted long before Biden

You might not have noticed, but Trump was the President... Biden was a private citizen at the time.
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