Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine

[Alan Klein]

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=vera+sharav+youtube&atb=v244-1&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D5_Af9GDaklQ

"Vera Sharav is a medical activist and a holocaust survivor. In her testimony before the German Corona Inquiry Committee she draws comparisons to the Nazi regime"

Fortunately we have a written constitution and 50 sovereign states that would keep the imperial gene for centralized power in Washington in check.  But who knows for sure? Every day, another treasured freedom is watered down like death from a thousand cuts. It's a slippery slope.

[faberryman]

The CDC who I;ve followed the most,  is the wrong expert regarding disinfectants cleaning surfaces?  So who should I listen to? Trump?  Biden?

Given your frequent diatribes against experts and the unreliability of their opinions, I am shocked that you would believe the experts at the CDC when they recommended disinfecting the surfaces of your home, and am even more shocked that you now believe the experts at the CDC when they say that soap and water is all that is needed. Since this is fundamentally medical advice about how to keep you and your family safe from COVID, I assume you followed your usually practice of obtaining second and third opinions. Which brings me to the subject of vaccines. Do you actually believe the experts when they tell you they work?

[Alan Klein]

Given your frequent diatribes against experts and the unreliability of their opinions, I am shocked that you would believe the experts at the CDC when they recommended disinfecting the surfaces of your home, and am even more shocked that you now believe the experts at the CDC when they say that soap and water is all that is needed. Since this is fundamentally medical advice about how to keep you and your family safe from COVID, I assume you followed your usually practice of obtaining second and third opinions. Which brings me to the subject of vaccines. Do you actually believe the experts when they tell you they work?

It's true, Frank, that I'm a contrarian, a rebel really.  I love playing Devil's advocate, thinking out of the box.  Agreeing with others is boring.  You learn nothing. You become a clone.  Challenging convention makes you think and explore alternatives which are often a better approach.  I don't trust experts blindly because they're often wrong or just repeating what they heard from others.  That's true about photographers as well as virologists. 

To answer your questions, since getting both shots, I've become more relaxed but still wear a mask when near others often just out of courtesy to them.  I won't eat in a restaurant but am considering getting together with friends who also have had their shots.  I still haven't seen my daughter and son-in-law, and that bothers me emotionally. I keep telling myself it's OK because she's trying to have a baby. My wife who had both shots as well still wears a double mask.  I'm still cautious because I'm 76 with loads of comorbidities. But I've relaxed a lot and can't wait for this thing to end.  I miss eating out and I want to travel again.  It hasn't hurt by photography since I shoot landscapes alone in less frequented places.

[JoeKitchen]

I'm talking about drinking water. How is that private well in your back yard working out?

I know a lot of people with wells in their back yard and only use well water.  They are very prevalent in Bucks and Lehigh county.  They very much prefer it over water from our suburban water systems.  Now, of course, I am not talking about open wells that only go down 40 or 50 feet, but close mined wells that go down well over a 100 and require a pump and filter. 

So they are not as bad as you are making them out to be and I have yet to meet anyone with a well who would prefer connecting to the utility. 

With that being said, most of these houses need to use propane since they also have no natural gas hookup.  I lived in an apartment for a time with a propane stove.  Given the option between well water but dealing with the smell of burned propane or utility water but having clean burning natural gas, I'd pick the latter. 

[faberryman]

It's true, Frank, that I'm a contrarian, a rebel really.  I love playing Devil's advocate, thinking out of the box.  Agreeing with others is boring.  You learn nothing. You become a clone.  Challenging convention makes you think and explore alternatives which are often a better approach.  I don't trust experts blindly because they're often wrong or just repeating what they heard from others.  That's true about photographers as well as virologists.

Forgive me for not believing you when you say that you are a rebel and a contrarian and like to think outside the box, because here you have done exactly the opposite. You are not challenging convention or exploring alternatives. You followed the CDC instructions about disinfecting the surfaces of your home to the letter, including, as you tell it, spending days on Amazon tracking down the specific disinfectants approved by the CDC. And you told us all about the elaborate routine you went through with your mail which was a real Kabuki dance. You even mentioned a week or so ago that you are still letting your mail sit for a day before opening it. Who can forget your descriptions of wiping down your groceries? And now you are following the CDC recommendations of continuing to wear a mask and not eating in restaurants even though you are fully vaccinated. You are doing exactly what the experts are telling you do, even though you castigate them for changing their minds, tell everyone within hearing distance that they can't be trusted, and are now bitching and moaning about having wasted all that time tracking down disinfectants and cleaning your home. You are not a rebel or contrarian, and you don't think outside the box. You just complain a lot. Read much Thurber?

[JoeKitchen]

No. I'm not making them out to be bad per se, just that they are not a suitable solution for all, eg an urban population.

True, although their is always rainwater.  Bermuda makes it work. 

PS, I have a flat roof and could easily modify my gutters to collect rain water.  I dont because I'm not crazy, but there are crazy people in my neighborhood who do this, mainly for gardening.  One guy, and I shit you not, has a puncheon barrel hooked up to his gutters.

[TechTalk]

I have pleaded several times for a more civilized debate, apparently in vain.

There are three options now:

1. to call you an idiot too
2. report you to moderator
3. you delete the post and apologize

Which one is it going to be?

Given that Alan falsely attributed clearly racist remarks to Jeremy and, despite multiple people calling him out on it, he refused to even acknowledge what he had done; I'm inclined to go with 4) ignore it. Alan has made false attributions of statements to multiple people, myself included. Each time he refuses to acknowledge them and now seems to kind of enjoy doing it.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Given that Alan falsely attributed clearly racist remarks to Jeremy and, despite multiple people calling him out on it, he refused to even acknowledge what he had done; I'm inclined to go with 4) ignore it. Alan has made false attributions of statements to multiple people, myself included. Each time he refuses to acknowledge them and now seems to kind of enjoy doing it.

None of that equates directly insulting people.

Since apparently that is the way you guys want to go, and the site owner seems to agree with that ("report to moderator" button is disabled)... I will bow out of this thread.

[TechTalk]

I wouldn't and haven't reacted or responded as Jeremy has since then. Then again, the offensive remarks that Alan falsely attributed to Jeremy were considerably worse than those he has attributed to others. So, that's why I'm inclined to just let it go and ignore it. I understand what has caused his hostility even though it isn't how I would choose to handle it.

[Alan Klein]

Forgive me for not believing you when you say that you are a rebel and a contrarian and like to think outside the box, because, in just this example alone, you have done exactly the opposite? You are not challenging convention or exploring alternatives. You followed the CDC instructions about disinfecting the surfaces of your home to the letter, including, as you tell it, spending days on Amazon tracking down the specific disinfectants approved by the CDC. And you told us all about the elaborate routine you went through with your mail which was a real Kabuki dance. You even mentioned a week or so ago that you are still letting your mail sit for a day before opening it. And now you are following the CDC recommendations of continuing to wear a mask and not eating in restaurants even though you are fully vaccinated. You are doing exactly what the experts are telling you do, even though you castigate them for changing their minds, tell everyone within hearing distance that they can't be trusted, and are now bitching and moaning about having wasted all that time tracking down disinfectants and cleaning your home. You are not a rebel or contrarian, and you don't think outside the box. You just complain a lot. Read much Thurber?

Well, I may be a rebel and contrarian.  But I'm not stupidly so.

[Alan Klein]

True, although their is always rainwater.  Bermuda makes it work. 

PS, I have a flat roof and could easily modify my gutters to collect rain water.  I dont because I'm not crazy, but there are crazy people in my neighborhood who do this, mainly for gardening.   One guy, and I shit you not,has a puncheon barrel hooked up to his gutters.

Are you sure he doesn't hide his wine there from his wife?

[Chris Kern]

It's true, Frank, that I'm a contrarian, a rebel really.  I love playing Devil's advocate, thinking out of the box.

For self-professed contrarian, you offer a very credible impression of an orthodox, mantra-chanting, right-wing populist.

[Alan Klein]

Given that Alan falsely attributed clearly racist remarks to Jeremy and, despite multiple people calling him out on it, he refused to even acknowledge what he had done; I'm inclined to go with 4) ignore it. Alan has made false attributions of statements to multiple people, myself included. Each time he refuses to acknowledge them and now seems to kind of enjoy doing it.

I don't recall that statement.  Would you refer me to my post so I can address it? I've had Jeremy on Ignore for weeks due to his recurring insults directed at me. Others here have called me a racist by association with the Republican party and Trump and my beliefs about election laws.  Posters have associated me with the Nazi party and Fascism.

I've said often this thread is devolving into name-calling which is unfortunate as it's helping to kill LuLa which needs all the help it can get.  I'll get the ball rolling by apologizing if any of my posts called anyone a racist and promise not to resort to any name-calling of anyone whatsoever regardless of how nasty they may be at times.  My defenses will remain cordial even if they screw up. However, I reserve the right to put them on the Ignore list again. 

Would others here be willing to agree to similar courtesies?

[TechTalk]

Debatable. What is not debatable is that you are a liar.

I understand why you are angry with Alan. The statements he attributed to you were incredibly insulting and egregious.

But, given his response, or lack thereof, since then, it's very unlikely that Alan is ever going to take responsibility for his own actions. As he is unwilling or unable to self reflect in an honest way, you might want to consider a different approach, if only to avoid drawing others into the fray like Slobodan, who I respect even when we strongly disagree. Just a suggestion. It's your call, as you were the injured party.

[TechTalk]

I don't recall that statement.  Would you refer me to my post so I can address it? I've had Jeremy on Ignore for weeks due to his recurring insults directed at me. Others here have called me a racist by association with the Republican party and Trump and my beliefs about election laws.  Posters have associated me with the Nazi party and Fascism.

Your pretense at having no recollection rings as hollow as your pretense at victimhood now; just as it did when you tried the victim act immediately following your insulting falsehoods aimed at Jeremy.

[TechTalk]

Novavax has added a twist to their clinical trial which I had not heard of until now.

Novavax adds blinded crossover arms to COVID-19 vaccine trials - April 6, 2021

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/novavax-adds-blinded-crossover-arms-to-covid-19-vaccine-trials

Novavax has added crossover arms to late-phase clinical trials of its COVID-19 vaccine. The action will enable participants in the placebo cohorts of the original trials to get vaccinated without unblinding the studies.

Participants in the 15,000-subject U.K. trial and 30,000-subject U.S.-Mexico study, which is yet to post data, will be offered the chance to get an additional round of injections. People who originally got a placebo will get two doses of the vaccine, and people who originally got the vaccine will receive two doses of placebo.

Novavax has taken a different approach to the South African phase 2b, where the prevalence of the B.1.351 variant contributed to weaker efficacy data than in the U.K. Placebo participants will still get the vaccine, but subjects in the original vaccine arm will also get a booster dose of NVX-CoV2373.

The design of the South African crossover trial will enable Novavax to evaluate whether an additional dose of its vaccine improves protection against B.1.351. The variant makes up a far smaller proportion of all COVID-19 cases in the U.K. and U.S.

Across all three trials, Novavax will conduct the crossover stages without unblinding the studies. The approach enables Novavax to address the ethical concern about leaving people unprotected during a pandemic while retaining the ability to assess efficacy. Novavax plans to follow participants for up to two years to assess the durability of protection. Participants have the option to become unblinded and receive a vaccine through their national immunization campaigns.

Novavax’s approach differs from those of other COVID-19 vaccine developers, which articulated their plans to the FDA as part of the emergency use authorization process. Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna proposed allowing participants who become eligible for vaccination under real-world immunization programs to request to be unblinded. Johnson & Johnson suggested an open-label crossover.

[josh.reichmann]

None of that equates directly insulting people.

Since apparently that is the way you guys want to go, and the site owner seems to agree with that ("report to moderator" button is disabled)... I will bow out of this thread.

Button is not disabled.
I received a flag about this very thread which I’m close to shutting down.

[josh.reichmann]

Is there anything at all constructive still occurring for each of you in this thread? Is there even a thread?
Reflect and if the thread continues on coarse simply as a place where insults and revisited grievance is dominant then I see no reason to keep it going. Mental health is important. Take stock. Breath. Resume as you see fit.
Thanks

[Alan Klein]

Your pretense at having no recollection rings as hollow as your pretense at victimhood now; just as it did when you tried the victim act immediately following your insulting falsehoods aimed at Jeremy.

I already apologized in general.   Since I don't know what post you're referring to, I can't apologize for anything specific if I said something untoward unless I can see what it was.  I have gone halfway.  How about you?  Will you agree to join me in eliminating all insults and keeping our posts on a friendly basis? How about others?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Button is not disabled...

Yes, I tried it again and it works. Could have been a temporary glitch, as when tested it earlier I got a response to the effect of “sorry, the board you are trying to reach is not active now” or some similar wording.