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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 107051 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #760 on: April 05, 2021, 04:05:49 am »

Bullshit. At the time you were claiming Covid is no worse than the yearly flew where on a bad year it kills 60,000 people in the US. Well I guess your smart ass remarks back then about waking you up hasn't changed any...you are still a selfish inconsiderate smart ass.

I posted a few posts above that the flu has killed more than 100 times more people in the world than Covid.

jeremyrh

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #761 on: April 05, 2021, 04:36:36 am »

;D ;D ;D

I have posted, months ago, links to research that found zero to negligible chance of asymptomatic transmission.

Some updates:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03141-3

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

As Chris Kern points out above, because of its nature, it's difficult to produce definitive evidence on the importance of asymptomatic transmission.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #762 on: April 05, 2021, 05:35:22 am »

I posted a few posts above that the flu has killed more than 100 times more people in the world than Covid.

Perhaps it's just one of those statements which provides less reassurance with repetition.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 05:39:35 am by TechTalk »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #763 on: April 05, 2021, 06:36:22 am »

Perhaps it's just one of those statements which provides less reassurance with repetition.

Feel free to dispute it.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #764 on: April 05, 2021, 06:37:07 am »

What neo-fascism is like:

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #765 on: April 05, 2021, 06:59:13 am »

Feel free to dispute it.

I'm just suggesting that like telling someone in intensive care — the person in the next bed over looks even closer to death than you do — the statement may provide less reassurance with repetition.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #766 on: April 05, 2021, 07:50:49 am »

What neo-fascism is like:

That is the state we have fallen to in the UK. More interested in statues than people.
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chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #767 on: April 05, 2021, 09:01:06 am »

I posted a few posts above that the flu has killed more than 100 times more people in the world than Covid.

You have all the answers don't you. If I had the energy, which I don't for someone as smug as you, I'd look up your post about the yearly flu being much more deadly than Covid. You explicitly said the flu kills more yearly than Covid and so smartly said to wake you up when Covid hits 60,000 deaths, as this is what a bad year of flu kills in the US. You can spin you BS anyway you like, but you were totally WRONG back then and you are totally WRONG now. Keep digging, you just might disappear.
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chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #768 on: April 05, 2021, 09:02:07 am »

Some updates:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03141-3

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

As Chris Kern points out above, because of its nature, it's difficult to produce definitive evidence on the importance of asymptomatic transmission.

Slobo doesn't believe in facts...just his BS that he spreads.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #769 on: April 05, 2021, 11:04:25 am »

I posted a few posts above that the flu has killed more than 100 times more people in the world than Covid.

I was listening to a infectious disease doctor one day on some podcast or other who said that at any one time there are about 100 common viruses floating around causing illnesses of differing seriousness among humans. Some are more commonly seen than others. Some cause mild symptoms and we usually refer to them as the common cold. Others cause more severe symptoms and we lump those together and call them "flu". There are also other more serious ones.

About a year ago, on either this thread or a previous one, you compared the numbers of deaths due to flu at 30,000 or 40,000 per year (I forget the exact number you used; USA numbers) and compared it to the known number of Covid deaths AT THAT TIME, which was a few hundred and you concluded that Covid was not serious. It made no sense at the time to compare annual flu deaths with the up-to-then deaths due to Covid, but it must have made sense to you. Well, the USA had about 500,000 deaths in one year due to Covid. This should have caused you to revisit your thinking.

Nowadays, you compare total deaths due to flu, apparently for the whole of the last century or so (or am I misunderstanding) to the up-to-now Covid deaths. You're using the same logic as last spring, but translated it to a different time of reference. It made no sense to compare the numbers in that way last year and it makes no sense now.

You have decided, for reasons of your own, that Covid is not important and all your analyses somehow support that. At best, that logic is suspect. Over time and different discussions, you have shown yourself to take pride in being a contrarian, and seem to justify that to yourself because it makes you feel independent and not a follower of trends. You are confusing independence of thought with contrarianism, they are not the same thing. If everyone in the room looks up at the sky and says it's blue, your calling it yellow does not make you an independent thinker, it makes you wrong.

Luckily, mostly due to various interventions, practical and vaccine, controlling Covid seems now possible. Over time, with some more luck, the virus will mutate to be less virulent. Your notion that it was never anything to worry is preposterous.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #770 on: April 05, 2021, 11:41:52 am »

I think the problem with Covid is that it became an either-or situation.  The argument has been go 100% medical and damn the economic considerations or go 100% economic, damn the medical issues.  The real solution is a compromise. 

Pretty much that's how it's been addressed first going one way then the other, then back again almost like the tide. It's one of those situations that have no single solution, no one answer that resolves all the issues. We all have been fumbling as we try to find a way to handle both sides effectively and that's been difficult, probably impossible.  Both sides think they're right and don't budge from their position, especially complicated by an election year in the USA.  Of course, these same issues have become apparent in other countries a well where conflicts have grown violent.  Fear about dying or losing your home causes conflict for individuals as well as nations. I'm sure we'll all get beyond these arguments and move on.

jeremyrh

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #771 on: April 05, 2021, 01:19:48 pm »

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #772 on: April 05, 2021, 02:09:51 pm »

... Your notion that it was never anything to worry is preposterous.

Your whole post (as well as chez' - but he is not worth debating) is based on a several straw-man arguments, i.e., something you think I said. Quote me as saying "it was never anything to worry about." My position then, as now, is that of whatever seriousness Covid might be, it is not worth lockdowns and mask mandates. It is a natural event that is going to play out regardless of what you do to stop it (you can't). I certainly know better than to compare annual figures with those of few weeks. As for the historic comparison, just the Spanish flu killed about 3% of the world population, while Covid is currently, after more than a year, at only 0.03%, that is 1/100 of that. Which does NOT take into account annual death from flu, before or after the Spanish one. So, certainly Covid is never going to match the Spanish flu record. We will live with it just as we live with the flu. Which means no lockdowns, no mask mandates, nor any other fascist measures. If we can resist the commie wave that is rolling across the world, that is.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 11:35:31 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #773 on: April 05, 2021, 11:29:47 pm »

... If everyone in the room looks up at the sky and says it's blue, your calling it yellow does not make you an independent thinker, it makes you wrong....

You sure?

dreed

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #774 on: April 06, 2021, 12:31:21 am »

My position then, as now, is that of whatever seriousness Covid might be, it is not worth lockdowns and mask mandates. It is a natural event that is going to play out regardless of what you do to stop it (you can't). I certainly know better than to compare annual figures with those of few weeks. As for the historic comparison, just the Spanish flu killed about 3% of the world population, while Covid is currently, after more than a year, at only 0.03%, that is 1/100 of that.

I understand where you're coming from regarding "natural event", but I would say that as a species, we've come to understand that the actions we collectively take as well as don't take can manage the spread of viruses. Back in the Spanish Flu days, they most certainly did wear masks (there are pictures of men wearing them at various places) to combat the spread of the virus. What they didn't have then was the technology we do now to quickly and effectively treat the virus.

Looking at the % of the population that died from each ignores what % of the population was exposed to the disease. That's what's missing in your 3% vs 0.03%. There's also many questions around the reliability of the numbers, especially out of China, for political reasons that weren't present 100 years ago. And remember that the 3% was with mask wearing and without the anti-mask religious political debate.

The greater question to ask is that by providing treatment to prevent people from dieing from diseases like this are we collectively weakening the human race to survive in the future. i.e we're playing God and telling Darwin to take a hike. it's not exactly hypothetical either, as more women now need IV treatment to get pregnant because more women have been born with related defects due to it being passed down from their mothers.

As many have said, the problem with COVID-19 isn't just the disease itself but the denial of service attach it has on health services for other ailments due to COVID-19 overwhelming existing facilities. It may be that you yourself don't die from COVID-19 but because you can't get care that you need because of COVID-19 denying you the medical resources required.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #775 on: April 06, 2021, 12:55:40 am »

... The greater question to ask is that by providing treatment to prevent people from dieing from diseases like this are we collectively weakening the human race to survive in the future. i.e we're playing God and telling Darwin to take a hike. it's not exactly hypothetical either, as more women now need IV treatment to get pregnant because more women have been born with related defects due to it being passed down from their mothers....

That’s an interesting angle.

As for masks, I am not against masks, but against mask mandates. I am with Obama: “If you like your mask, you can keep your mask.” I am against lockdowns. Not to mention curfews. Or any other fascist measures, like tracking, neighbor snitching, backyard drone-monitoring, yellow arm bands (a.k.a. Covid passports). Or sending people to jail for 10 years for lying (or forgetting) which countries they visited.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 01:03:05 am by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #776 on: April 06, 2021, 12:59:34 am »

... Looking at the % of the population that died from each ignores what % of the population was exposed to the disease. That's what's missing in your 3% vs 0.03%....

Can you elaborate why is that relevant in this context?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #777 on: April 06, 2021, 01:00:55 am »

Another interesting angle:

jeremyrh

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #778 on: April 06, 2021, 05:43:52 am »

Your whole post (as well as chez' - but he is not worth debating) is based on a several straw-man arguments, i.e., something you think I said. Quote me as saying "it was never anything to worry about." My position then, as now, is that of whatever seriousness Covid might be, it is not worth lockdowns and mask mandates. It is a natural event that is going to play out regardless of what you do to stop it (you can't).

That's almost reaching Klein levels of wrongness.  OK, maybe not, but still very wrong.  The simple fact is that lockdowns etc have reduced the spread of infection and kept the level of death from reaching the levels they could have got to if we'd just gone about our business as normal.  That gave us the time to develop and roll out vaccines.  What happens next we don't know - hopefully some sort of annual booster jab will be sufficient.  If new variants keep arising in non-vaccinated populations then it is hard to see an end.

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I certainly know better than to compare annual figures with those of few weeks. As for the historic comparison, just the Spanish flu killed about 3% of the world population, while Covid is currently, after more than a year, at only 0.03%, that is 1/100 of that. Which does NOT take into account annual death from flu, before or after the Spanish one. So, certainly Covid is never going to match the Spanish flu record. We will live with it just as we live with the flu. Which means no lockdowns, no mask mandates, nor any other fascist measures. If we can resist the commie wave that is rolling across the world, that is.

I don't really see the point of your comparison. Spanish flu killed a lot of people, bubonic plague killed a lot of people - so what ?

"Commie wave", "fascist measures" - too funny!! :-)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 06:04:09 am by jeremyrh »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #779 on: April 06, 2021, 05:54:50 am »

As for the historic comparison, just the Spanish flu killed about 3% of the world population, while Covid is currently, after more than a year, at only 0.03%, that is 1/100 of that. Which does NOT take into account annual death from flu, before or after the Spanish one. So, certainly Covid is never going to match the Spanish flu record. We will live with it just as we live with the flu. Which means no lockdowns, no mask mandates, nor any other fascist measures. If we can resist the commie wave that is rolling across the world, that is.

It's hard to compare the Spanish Flu in 1918-20 with Covid-19 in 2020. Spanish Flu killed between 20 million to 50 million lives. Covid-19 killed in the first 15 months 3 million people worldwide. It is highly probably that without the modern communications, lockdowns, testing facilities, skilled medical personnel and advanced medical equipment the number of Covid-19 infections and deaths would be substantially higher, quite possibly on the same level as Spanish Flu.

Although more dangerous for the seniors, there are plenty of reports of even young healthy people falling ill and dying due to the C19 virus. In Canada, we are going through the third wave which is more deadly, and spread also among younger individuals.
 
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As more seniors get vaccinated for COVID-19, Canada is seeing a shift in the coronavirus spread with an increasing number of cases among the younger population.

While infections have declined in Canadians aged 80 and older since January, cases are now highest among young adults aged 20 to 39, according to the latest national public health modelling released March 26. The rise of new more transmissible variants, vaccination programs focusing on the elderly and coronavirus fatigue are driving the spread among the younger group, experts say.

“It is important to remember that although severe illness is less common in younger age groups, serious or prolonged illness can occur at any age, and there are emerging concerns about increasing severity of the B.1.1.7 variant in adults,” Theresa Tam, Canada’s chief health officer, said during a March 26 news conference.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7731485/covid-variant-cases-young-canadians/
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