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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 107054 times)

JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #680 on: April 02, 2021, 01:21:28 pm »

Fully vaccinated people can travel at low risk to themselves, new CDC guidance says
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/02/health/cdc-travel-guidance-fully-vaccinated-wellness/index.html

Amazing how what we have learned over the last 100+ years of vaccine science, even after all of this, is ...

... still true. 

Honestly, and I do realize that if you are over 65 and still not vaccinated you should have concerns, people in general are over this.  My wife teaches workout classes part time (mainly for fun and getting us significantly reduced gym memberships) and two weeks ago two ladies (60+) did the class without any masks.  Their response was it is time for this silliness to end.  No in the class pushed back. 

I did a shoot yesterday at a large print and fabrication shop that had a full crew working, around 35 employees.  Not a single mask was to be seen.  Being in architecture and working with contractors half the time, whom have been pretty "caviler" over these restriction since the beginning, it was not surprising to see the shop workers not wearing anything.  But even the office staff was mask free. 

I asked the guy I was working with if they require visitors to wear masks.  He just looked at me as if to say, of course not.  Grant it, this shop is in a 1800s commercial building with little to no windows on the first floor, none clean enough to see through at least, was not open to the public, and not in a neighborhood you would just happen to find yourself in for no good reason, and even with a good reason you may not either, so away from prying eyes. 

It was a pretty good shoot. 

Although the faint smell of tremendous quantities of raw paper and ink that gradually grows in intensity within your nasal cavity while being in such facilities to point of making you feel like you are on the verge of dry heaving was, by the end of the day, making me reconsider going mask free. 
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 03:18:26 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #681 on: April 02, 2021, 02:59:12 pm »

Who cares what you say. You don't seem to have a moral issue with telling lies so we can't assume that anything you say is true, that anything you quote as fact is actually correct. You are just a waste of time.

How feeble: a purer example of argumentum ad hominem would be hard to find.

S
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Manoli

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #682 on: April 02, 2021, 03:23:51 pm »

My wife teaches workout classes part time (mainly for fun and getting us significantly reduced gym memberships) and two weeks ago two ladies (60+) did the class without any masks.  Their response was it is time for this silliness to end.  No in the class pushed back. 

Déjà vu.

Jimmy Kimmel on Sarah Palin:

“I love these people who only believe in science when it happens to them,” Kimmel deadpanned. “It’s like saying ‘now that I’ve been mauled by a bear personally, I realize that their claws and teeth are very sharp.”

Quote
Jimmy Kimmel touched on a surprising change of heart by former vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin in the Covid culture wars on Thursday evening. After revealing that she and several members of her family had been stricken with the coronavirus, Palin encouraged others to wear masks.

“Which is rich,” said Kimmel, “because back in May she flew all the way to Texas to visit a beauty salon to support the owner of that salon who went to jail because she refused to shut her business down.” The Texas woman “said that it was her constitutional right to endanger her community,” Kimmel continued, “but now that Sarah has herself been bitten by the bug, she changed her tune."
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 03:43:00 pm by Manoli »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #683 on: April 02, 2021, 04:09:38 pm »

Déjà vu.

Jimmy Kimmel on Sarah Palin:

“I love these people who only believe in science when it happens to them,” Kimmel deadpanned. “It’s like saying ‘now that I’ve been mauled by a bear personally, I realize that their claws and teeth are very sharp.”

LOL, the same old same old sky is falling nonsense.  If it was up to people like you, we would be wearing masks from now until the end of time. 

I am fully aware of C-19 and it's risks for people in my age group with my health, which is why I am not too concerned about it.  For someone like me, all the science shows I am just as likely to die from it as the flu, perhaps a smidge more, if I were to catch it.  The IFR, last I checked for my age group, is 0.04%.  Now, do I want to catch it.  No, but I dont want to be in a car accident either.  However, my desire to avoid both those things is not enough to justify changing my actions since the chances of each are extremely small.   

Furthermore, spare me the argument that I, a singular person, am responsible for the health of the world.  I give that no credence anymore.

Now, when it comes to bear attacks, regardless of age, if you are mauled by one, the science shows you will probably die.  Even if you play dead, you still have a 25% chance of dying when encountering a bear.  (I just looked that up and it is surprisingly higher then what I thought after being told playing dead can be effective strategy.  I guess when there are only bad options, you go for the least bad.)  That is not a fatality rate to take lightly, and even if you survive you will most likely be marred for the rest of your life.  Now, does this keep from hiking in the forest?  No, but I make sure to make plenty of noise so I dont surprise a bear and get my face ripped off for the pleasure. 


Just as an aside, if you could guarantee me that by wearing a mask I would live 5 years longer then by not wearing one, I would still choose to not wear one.  As to why, life is not just about ensuring you will wake up the next day.  A life without joy or laughter or company is not a life worth living.  A life inside left purely to your own devices and slowing going mad in the process is certainly not one I choose to live either. 
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #684 on: April 02, 2021, 04:27:45 pm »

Furthermore, spare me the argument that I, a singular person, am responsible for the health of the world.  I give that no credence anymore.

None of us is "responsible for the health of the world". It's a non-argument.

If you live in a society of people, you do have an obligation not to needlessly put the health or well-being of those around you at risk. It may not be an obligation you want or accept, but it exists nonetheless. Neither ignorance nor ideology is a reason to do so during a pandemic. There is no sensible reason not to wear a mask and take other common sense public health measures to reduce the spread of COVID-19.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #685 on: April 02, 2021, 04:31:58 pm »

How feeble: a purer example of argumentum ad hominem would be hard to find.

S

So far you've made no worthwhile contribution of any kind in any of your posts. You're a fly at a picnic and that seems to be the role you enjoy. Pathetic.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #686 on: April 02, 2021, 05:01:05 pm »

None of us is "responsible for the health of the world". It's a non-argument.

If you live in a society of people, you do have an obligation not to needlessly put the health or well-being of those around you at risk. It may not be an obligation you want or accept, but it exists nonetheless. Neither ignorance nor ideology is a reason to do so during a pandemic. There is no sensible reason not to wear a mask and take other common sense public health measures to reduce the spread of COVID-19.

As of today, about 75% of seniors have been vaccinated nationwide, and that number is only going up.  They are, by far, the most at risk group representing 80.75% of all C-19 deaths in the USA. 

Regardless if the vaccines work, and they appear to be working, or if vaccinated individuals can still spread C-19, we have now done all that we can, and it is time to get back to normal.  Even if they did not work, it would still be time to accept the reality and move on.  If you cant let go of the fear, that is understandable. 

But, even so, I think by the end of this month, it will be common place in nearly the entire USA to see more people without masks then with. 

PS, I did enjoy how you shot down my critique of the health of the world arguments out there and then proceeded to use one, justifying my need for critiquing it in the first place. 
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 05:09:03 pm by JoeKitchen »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #687 on: April 02, 2021, 05:32:39 pm »

If you cant let go of the fear, that is understandable. 

Fear can be reasonable or unreasonable and can also fall somewhere in between. The lack of fear follows the same pattern.

My personal goal is to aim for reasonable. At all times, I aim to steer away from reckless fearlessness and paranoid fear.

During a pandemic without parallel in a century of an easily transmitted virus, I find it a sensible course of action to listen to the guidance of public health officials for the simple reason that they have a much deeper knowledge of the subject than I do. It's generally worked out well for me to listen to those that have a deeper understanding of a particular subject than I possess in navigating life. This is no exception.

Until this pandemic is under control, there isn't going to be any normal to get back to. People have seen overflowing hospitals and bodies stacked in refrigerated trucks in various places during waves of its spread. Fear of that reoccurring is not unreasonable. The greater the number of people who are vaccinated and following public health recommendations, like masks and social distancing, the sooner we will see normal again.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #688 on: April 02, 2021, 05:56:01 pm »

PS, I did enjoy how you shot down my critique of the health of the world arguments out there and then proceeded to use one, justifying my need for critiquing it in the first place.

I did dismiss anyone being responsible for "the health of the world" as a non-argument. That's why I then referred to an obligation to "those around you". The "world" and "those around you" are two different things; unless, of course, you believe that the world revolves around you.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #689 on: April 02, 2021, 06:13:09 pm »

I did dismiss anyone being responsible for "the health of the world" as a non-argument. That's why I then referred to an obligation to "those around you". The "world" and "those around you" are two different things; unless, of course, you believe that the world revolves around you.
As an old guy in the worse demographic for this disease, I can still understand why others wish to get on with their lives.  Taking care of people around you also includes your family, who are the people closest to you and for which you are most responsible.  Blood is thicker than water. 

We have to consider that providers are responsible for caring for their families and feeding them.  Whenever we act, there's a chance of hurting ourselves or others.  Sometimes it's hard to balance these things as is the case with Covid.  I think a little understanding on all sides that there are no simple answers to these questions would go a long way in maintaining some comity in our society.  No one is evil or a monster.  We're all trying to stay healthy and care for those we love as well as be responsible to our neighbors. 

JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #690 on: April 02, 2021, 06:28:32 pm »

I did dismiss anyone being responsible for "the health of the world" as a non-argument. That's why I then referred to an obligation to "those around you". The "world" and "those around you" are two different things; unless, of course, you believe that the world revolves around you.

Once again, you are showing us how bright of a future you would have in left wing fact checking.  I can see your retort. 

"Although anyone with half a brain knows Joe is referring to his personal community with the use of "world," this is rated as false since, you know, he is in fact not responsible for the health of the world even though we know he did not mean that."
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #691 on: April 02, 2021, 06:29:09 pm »


Just as an aside, if you could guarantee me that by wearing a mask I would live 5 years longer then by not wearing one, I would still choose to not wear one.  As to why, life is not just about ensuring you will wake up the next day.  A life without joy or laughter or company is not a life worth living.  A life inside left purely to your own devices and slowing going mad in the process is certainly not one I choose to live either.

The actual good time would depend on when that 5 year period starts. For some it could be drastically shortened.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #692 on: April 02, 2021, 06:59:53 pm »

The actual good time would depend on when that 5 year period starts. For some it could be drastically shortened.
The problem with spending all that time exercising in mid-life to stay healthy is that the extra years you may obtain are added at the end when you're senile and drooling.   :o

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #693 on: April 02, 2021, 07:23:37 pm »

Once again, you are showing us how bright of a future you would have in left wing fact checking.  I can see your retort. 

"Although anyone with half a brain knows Joe is referring to his personal community with the use of "world," this is rated as false since, you know, he is in fact not responsible for the health of the world even though we know he did not mean that."

No, you can't see my retort although you believe that you can. My retort would be...

I'm familiar with the use of "the world" as an idiom. It's an expressive substitute for "everyone" as in: Hey, tell the world, why don't you!. It's an expressive substitute for "everything" as in: You mean the world to me. It's an expressive substitute for "anything" as in: I wouldn't miss this for the world. It is of course used as a substitute for "everywhere". It can also be used to refer to the "entirety" of something or something contained within an entire entity as in: The world of science.

In other words, "the world" is used to express the expansiveness or all-inclusiveness of something. As an idiom it is the opposite of something small, exclusive, personal, or local. Though I wouldn't assume that "anyone with half a brain" would necessarily know that.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 10:31:02 pm by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #694 on: April 02, 2021, 10:04:47 pm »

Cuba has their own vaccine development program. Two are being tested in Phase III trials. A couple of news stories and a video below...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/americas/cuba-vaccines-covid-phase-three

Despite a worsening economy and increased US sanctions, the communist-run island has pulled off a feat no other Latin American country can claim to date: the development of five Covid-19 vaccine candidates, two of which that are in their final phase three trials.

As the number of coronavirus cases on the island continue to rise, its vaccine candidates and the island's aspirations to be a biomedical powerhouse will be put to the test. On Wednesday, Cuba hit a grim new record in Covid-19 infections -- 1,051 new cases diagnosed in 24 hours.

Cuban officials in March announced they were expanding the vaccine trials already underway to include hundreds of thousands more people. First up in the expanded trials are 150,000 front line workers, including Ida Martínez Hernández, a dentist who early on in the pandemic was sent by the government to help fight the spread of the virus.

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/analysis/cuba-vaccine-covid-19/

https://www.youtube.com/Vaccine Watch: Cuba develops its own COVID-19 vaccines

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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #695 on: April 03, 2021, 08:29:10 am »

Cuba has their own vaccine development program. Two are being tested in Phase III trials. A couple of news stories and a video below...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/americas/cuba-vaccines-covid-phase-three

Despite a worsening economy and increased US sanctions, the communist-run island has pulled off a feat no other Latin American country can claim to date: the development of five Covid-19 vaccine candidates, two of which that are in their final phase three trials.

As the number of coronavirus cases on the island continue to rise, its vaccine candidates and the island's aspirations to be a biomedical powerhouse will be put to the test. On Wednesday, Cuba hit a grim new record in Covid-19 infections -- 1,051 new cases diagnosed in 24 hours.

Cuban officials in March announced they were expanding the vaccine trials already underway to include hundreds of thousands more people. First up in the expanded trials are 150,000 front line workers, including Ida Martínez Hernández, a dentist who early on in the pandemic was sent by the government to help fight the spread of the virus.

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/analysis/cuba-vaccine-covid-19/

https://www.youtube.com/Vaccine Watch: Cuba develops its own COVID-19 vaccines


I hope Cuban vaccines work well and the Cuban people are vaccinated against this dreadful disease.  But I think it's unfair to blame America for its economic condition.  The Communist nation should have thrown off their socialist economy 30 years ago when their benefactor the Soviet Union collapsed economically.  You think they would have learned something from that. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #696 on: April 03, 2021, 09:12:11 am »

Which experts are we to believe?  One of the major problems is the average person on the street reads these headlines and is just more confused every day.  Evidence supposedly shifts and we go back and forth opening businesses then closing them again only to open them again.  Who is right? Experts are mistrusted.   On top of "no-nothing" experts, you got politicians playing politics.   People get fed up. 

That why not only in America but in Europe too, people are protesting shutdowns because they see their livelihoods disappearing.  In six months when the disease will be forgotten because it passed, millions of people will be worried about how they will feed their family because they are out of work, losing their homes and savings if they have anything left.  The experts and politicians would have moved on to some other issue.
Here's an example of my point.  CDC says one thing.  Then they qualify it. Then the president, who tells everyone to listen to the experts, overrides the CDC and qualifies their qualifications.  So what should the poor guy who's trying to get on with life make of these confusing and contradictory edicts?  It's a joke.  Of course, since Biden is overriding experts, and not Trump, the press gives him a pass.


CDC tells vaccinated Americans travel is 'low risk,' as Biden urges caution amid rising infection numbers
While appearing to condone travel, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky still urged even vaccinated Americans to remain at home as case numbers continue to rise, a message that could be confusing for people weighing visits to family or vacation spots.

Speaking from the White House earlier on Friday afternoon in celebration of both jobs gained and coronavirus vaccinations administered throughout the course of March, President Biden also offered a cautious message. “The progress we’ve worked so hard to achieve can be reversed,” he said, speaking of both economic and pandemic-related developments.

“Too many Americans are acting as if this fight is over,” Biden warned a few minutes later. “It is not.”

The White House did not respond to a Yahoo News inquiry regarding whether the president agreed with the new CDC guidance. Such seemingly contradictory messages have marked the response to the coronavirus at all levels of government. Much as every elected official has vowed to “listen to the science,” science and politics rarely walk hand in hand.

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-tells-vaccinated-american-travel-is-low-risk-as-biden-urges-caution-amid-rising-infection-numbers-185026202.html
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 09:16:01 am by Alan Klein »
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dreed

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #697 on: April 03, 2021, 10:27:33 am »

Here's an example of my point.  CDC says one thing.  Then they qualify it. Then the president, who tells everyone to listen to the experts, overrides the CDC and qualifies their qualifications. 

Yes, this is a problem because it requires intelligence to put it all together and understand the message.

I can see why you liked Trump - his message was always easy to understand (even if it was wrong.)
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dreed

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #698 on: April 03, 2021, 10:34:57 am »

Just as an aside, if you could guarantee me that by wearing a mask I would live 5 years longer then by not wearing one, I would still choose to not wear one.  As to why, life is not just about ensuring you will wake up the next day.  A life without joy or laughter or company is not a life worth living.  A life inside left purely to your own devices and slowing going mad in the process is certainly not one I choose to live either.

What if you wearing a mask meant that your best friend didn't get COVID-19 from you and die as a result?

What if wearing a mask means that you don't get COVID-19 and survive but with much reduced kidney function that is unknown now but means you are on dialysis in 10 years? For many people, surviving COVID-19 is not the end of their encounter with COVID-19, just the beginning of living with the aftermath.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #699 on: April 03, 2021, 10:47:00 am »

What if you wearing a mask meant that your best friend didn't get COVID-19 from you and die as a result?

What if wearing a mask means that you don't get COVID-19 and survive but with much reduced kidney function that is unknown now but means you are on dialysis in 10 years? For many people, surviving COVID-19 is not the end of their encounter with COVID-19, just the beginning of living with the aftermath.

 ;D ;D ;D

Just more panic-porn.
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