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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 107045 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #640 on: April 01, 2021, 06:34:37 am »

Which, of course, is a very real possibility. Being vaccinated doesn't prevent you from being infected, it just mitigates the consequences. If you are infected, you can pass it on as well.

The benefit of vaccination is that, supposedly, a vaccine-induced immune reaction would be faster and more potent, thus killing more viruses quicker. As a result, even if you infect others, it would be with a smaller viral load. Not unlike if you are asymptomatic.

Guardian reports that one third of C19 patients who were treated in the hospital are re-admitted within 4 months back to the hospital. Very likely, they have infected others while there were re-infected. 

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Nearly a third of people who have been in hospital suffering from Covid-19 are readmitted for further treatment within four months of being discharged, and one in eight of patients dies in the same period, doctors have found. The striking long-term impact of the disease has prompted doctors to call for ongoing tests and monitoring of former coronavirus patients to detect early signs of organ damage and other complications caused by the virus.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/01/almost-third-of-uk-covid-hospital-patients-readmitted-within-four-months
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #641 on: April 01, 2021, 07:40:56 am »

Guardian reports that one third of C19 patients who were treated in the hospital are re-admitted within 4 months back to the hospital. Very likely, they have infected others while there were re-infected. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/01/almost-third-of-uk-covid-hospital-patients-readmitted-within-four-months

That's just more commie panic porn. There is no chance in hell that ⅓ are reinfected.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #642 on: April 01, 2021, 07:45:35 am »

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... one in eight of patients dies...

Note that when someone dies within days of weeks after being vaccinated, it is dismissed as "coincidental" (i.e., they would have died anyway, from old age or underlying illness). But when someone dies within four months after recovering from Covid... it is a long-term Covid damage(!)  ;D ;D ;D

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #643 on: April 01, 2021, 10:09:56 am »

That's just more commie panic porn. There is no chance in hell that ⅓ are reinfected.

Note that when someone dies within days of weeks after being vaccinated, it is dismissed as "coincidental" (i.e., they would have died anyway, from old age or underlying illness). But when someone dies within four months after recovering from Covid... it is a long-term Covid damage(!)  ;D ;D ;D

Is your primary expertise in panic, porn, or pathology? If it isn't pathology, I would give considerably more weight to the opinions of doctors and research scientists.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #644 on: April 01, 2021, 10:23:59 am »

Which, of course, is a very real possibility. Being vaccinated doesn't prevent you from being infected, it just mitigates the consequences. If you are infected, you can pass it on as well.

The benefit of vaccination is that, supposedly, a vaccine-induced immune reaction would be faster and more potent, thus killing more viruses quicker. As a result, even if you infect others, it would be with a smaller viral load. Not unlike if you are asymptomatic.
There was nothing in the article stating retransmission happened although the poster implied the article stated that.  I was correcting his statement. 

Additionally, from a separate March 30 article below, the CDC now says that re-transmission from a vaccinated person doesn't happen.  Since she said it on Rachel Maddow's MSNBC show, it must be true.   ::)

CDC Director: Vaccinated People Don't Carry Virus, Don't Get Sick
People who have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 are not carriers of the virus and don't have symptoms from the disease, according to a new study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"Our data from the CDC today suggest that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick," CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Monday on MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show."

"And that it’s not just in the clinical trials, but it’s also in real-world data," she said.

https://www.newsmax.com/us/cdc-vaccinated-immunity/2021/03/30/id/1015768/

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #645 on: April 01, 2021, 10:35:03 am »

There was nothing in the article stating retransmission happened although the poster implied the article stated that.  I was correcting his statement. 

The poster said: "This appears to be about getting the infection after inoculation rather than spreading the virus after inoculation." You corrected nothing. You simply didn't understand the statement.

Look up what "rather than" means.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/rather-than
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #646 on: April 01, 2021, 10:35:29 am »

Is your primary expertise in panic, porn, or pathology? If it isn't pathology, I would give considerably more weight to the opinions of doctors and research scientists.
Which experts are we to believe?  One of the major problems is the average person on the street reads these headlines and is just more confused every day.  Evidence supposedly shifts and we go back and forth opening businesses then closing them again only to open them again.  Who is right? Experts are mistrusted.   On top of "no-nothing" experts, you got politicians playing politics.   People get fed up. 

That why not only in America but in Europe too, people are protesting shutdowns because they see their livelihoods disappearing.  In six months when the disease will be forgotten because it passed, millions of people will be worried about how they will feed their family because they are out of work, losing their homes and savings if they have anything left.  The experts and politicians would have moved on to some other issue.

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #647 on: April 01, 2021, 10:46:16 am »

The poster said: "This appears to be about getting the infection after inoculation rather than spreading the virus after inoculation." You corrected nothing. You simply didn't understand the statement.

Look up what "rather than" means.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/rather-than
Here is my post and his. There were a number of posts.  You can't take one out of context.

Quote from: degrub on March 31, 2021, 09:03:49 pm
What i apparently was not clear about in my comment about inoculation status was where/who  she was infected by. As written in the article, it implied that other members of the funeral party that she was in contact with were the source of her infection as they tested positive for having been infected at some time.
It would be equally likely that she was infected elsewhere since this is transmitted by air.

My subsequent response: I was responding to earlier posts that seemed to be using this example somehow to show that if one had been vaccinated one could infect others.
Just to be clear to other readers.  There's nothing in the article that indicated that someone who was vaccinated passed the virus to someone else or could do this.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #648 on: April 01, 2021, 11:14:12 am »

You skipped the original post from degrub and your response that indicated you didn't understand his statement. He then had to post a reply in an effort for you to understand what he originally posted.

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What is missing is the inoculation status of all of the family members and others she was around within the last 4-5 days or even a week.
This appears to be about getting the infection after inoculation rather than spreading the virus after inoculation.

The article says she only got a mild bout of the virus.  That's what the "experts" are saying.  That even if you get the virus, it's like a common cold.  You don't need the ICU and you don't die.  So the vaccine is really a great thing for the small percentage of people who will get Covid despite getting their shots. 

Also, your comment is erroneous that she passed the infection along to others or can be passed along even if you had the vaccine is not confirmed in the article.  In fact, only she said that with out proof or knowledge that she passed it to anyone else.  Could you copy here where in the article it says says anyone else got the disease from her?

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=137509.msg1213313#msg1213313

You called "erroneous" a statement ("that she passed the infection along to others") which no one made.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #649 on: April 01, 2021, 11:20:42 am »

You skipped the original post from degrub and your response that indicated you didn't understand his statement. He then had to post a reply in an effort for you to understand what he originally posted.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=137509.msg1213313#msg1213313


You called "erroneous" a statement ("that she passed the infection along to others") which no one made.
You're beating this thing to death to prove a minor and silly point.  Who cares if your interpretation differs from mine? We've passed that issue of what someone said about some insignificant article that proved nothing.  The most important thing now is that the CDC director said you can't spread the disease if you got the shots. The earlier discussion points are outdated.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #650 on: April 01, 2021, 11:55:24 am »

Which experts are we to believe?

The ones with the most knowledge and experience in the relevant field.

Experts are mistrusted.

Mostly by those that lack a basic understanding of science, making them an easy target for those with an agenda and desire to spread confusion and distrust of science.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #651 on: April 01, 2021, 01:26:18 pm »

You're beating this thing to death to prove a minor and silly point.  Who cares if your interpretation differs from mine? We've passed that issue of what someone said about some insignificant article that proved nothing.  The most important thing now is that the CDC director said you can't spread the disease if you got the shots. The earlier discussion points are outdated.

Who cares what you say. You don't seem to have a moral issue with telling lies so we can't assume that anything you say is true, that anything you quote as fact is actually correct. You are just a waste of time.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #652 on: April 01, 2021, 01:31:54 pm »

The ones with the most knowledge and experience in the relevant field.

Mostly by those that lack a basic understanding of science, making them an easy target for those with an agenda and desire to spread confusion and distrust of science.
If this was true,  no one would bother getting a second opinion of medical advice from a doctor.  We'd accept the advice from the first expert.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #653 on: April 01, 2021, 02:32:27 pm »

If this was true,  no one would bother getting a second opinion of medical advice from a doctor.  We'd accept the advice from the first expert.

You might note that in my reply, I said "The ones with the most knowledge and experience in the relevant field." — ones, plural, not singular.

That's how science, including doctors and medical science, works. Each has their individual work, but they also work together, often in teams, in order to broaden their understanding and expand the range of knowledge being applied. As they all have human limitations, no one person can absorb all of the available knowledge and data in science, medicine, or particular field and they routinely seek out knowledge, opinions, and advice from others within their field of expertise and from other fields as well. They routinely engage in consultations with each other. The more serious or complex a disease or condition, the more likely those additional consultations become.

This is why often, a doctor making a diagnosis or recommending a treatment plan will suggest a second opinion or consult with other colleagues themself. It's done to insure that before a consensus is reached on diagnosis or treatment that someone else with similar expertise, but their own collection of knowledge and experience, has come to the same conclusions and recommendations. If there  are differences of opinion or questions raised, it indicates a need for further investigation. It's good professional practice, good advice, good medicine, and good science. It's also why science journals engage in peer review prior to publishing articles. Scientists and doctors check each others work for omissions or errors in data, including human error, looking for explanations and recommendations based on the best available evidence. That's how science, including medical science, routinely works.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #654 on: April 01, 2021, 02:47:47 pm »

You might note that in my reply, I said "The ones with the most knowledge and experience in the relevant field." — ones, plural, not singular.

That's how science, including doctors and medical science, works. Each has their individual work, but they also work together, often in teams, in order to broaden their understanding and expand the range of knowledge being applied. As they all have human limitations, no one person can absorb all of the available knowledge and data in science, medicine, or particular field and they routinely seek out knowledge, opinions, and advice from others within their field of expertise and from other fields as well. They routinely engage in consultations with each other. The more serious or complex a disease or condition, the more likely those additional consultations become.

This is why often, a doctor making a diagnosis or recommending a treatment plan will suggest a second opinion or consult with other colleagues themself. It's done to insure that before a consensus is reached on diagnosis or treatment that someone else with similar expertise, but their own collection of knowledge and experience, has come to the same conclusions and recommendations. If there  are differences of opinion or questions raised, it indicates a need for further investigation. It's good professional practice, good advice, good medicine, and good science. It's also why science journals engage in peer review prior to publishing articles. Scientists and doctors check each others work for omissions or errors in data, including human error, looking for explanations and recommendations based on the best available evidence. That's how science, including medical science, routinely works.
The problem is different experts are giving different opinions on what to do.  And then they change their minds every few weeks.  How do average people suppose to decipher all this? It's all confusing to them.

Interestingly, the people who follow a lot of these things are actually more confused than the average person. The more they read, the more they learn that no one has an exact handle on anything.  A lot of suggestions are just that. Odds making.  So-called facts are diverse and become overwhelming.  It's like looking for a new camera.  The more you study the specs, the more questions they raise and the more difficult it becomes to make a decision.  You begin to realize that no camera will satisfy all your needs.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #655 on: April 01, 2021, 03:01:36 pm »

The confused are mostly those that lack a basic understanding of science, making them an easy target for those with an agenda and desire to spread confusion and distrust of science.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #656 on: April 01, 2021, 03:14:44 pm »

The confused are mostly those that lack a basic understanding of science, making them an easy target for those with an agenda and desire to spread confusion and distrust of science.
People aren't stupid.  They're concerned about their health and the health of their families.  However, when conflicting rules occur or keep changing, you can't expect ordinary people to behave consistently.  That requires clear messaging. It's up to political officials and experts to be concise and clear.  However, when you get Politicians like Gov Newsom of California to pronounce edicts against mingling yet we discover he's comingling at expensive restaurants with his rich supporters, you can understand why people think the whole thing is BS.  Or you get the CDC lying about masks early on.  They lose credibility.  I'm excited about science as much as you are.  But, science isn't the problem.  It's the game playing and lies and distortion and politics that create opposition.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #657 on: April 01, 2021, 03:44:22 pm »

I'm excited about science as much as you are.

You're the judge of your own excitement. It's of no concern to me.

But, science isn't the problem.

No, science isn't the problem. It's lacking a fundamental understanding of what science is; what it is not; and its basic principles. That creates an opportunity for those with an agenda to exploit those lacking that basic knowledge to sow confusion and doubt. It's your basic FUD tactic of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt being used by people that don't care about science to manipulate those that don't understand it.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #658 on: April 01, 2021, 04:15:36 pm »

You're the judge of your own excitement. It's of no concern to me.

No, science isn't the problem. It's lacking a fundamental understanding of what science is; what it is not; and its basic principles. That creates an opportunity for those with an agenda to exploit those lacking that basic knowledge to sow confusion and doubt. It's your basic FUD tactic of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt being used by people that don't care about science to manipulate those that don't understand it.
Science isn't the truth.  And people make mistakes.  And everyone has agendas, even scientists.  You have to use discernment.  Do not put your trust in princes.

pschefz

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #659 on: April 01, 2021, 04:50:48 pm »


In six months when the disease will be forgotten because it passed, millions of people will be worried about how they will feed their family because they are out of work, losing their homes and savings if they have anything left.  The experts and politicians would have moved on to some other issue.

hard to take anyone seriously who still, after more then a year of this, somehow think this will "pass". it won't....I have no clue if vaccines are the answer, what the long term effects of the vaccines or covid are, I do know that masks and washing hands work (to a degree) and that this is real and still very much around and kicking and morphing.....
I am probably more worried about my livelihood then you are, which is also why I have taken this seriously from day one on and taken and adjusted to all measures put in place....my kids missed a year of school and after school sports....and everything we (as a family) have sacrificed has been less effective because of people like you....
what on earth is wrong with you to think that NOW, a year later this will just magically pass?!
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