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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 112408 times)

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2900 on: January 13, 2022, 04:53:01 pm »

Actually, the Supreme Court has made no ruling on the substance of the the challenge to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) mandate.  It ordered a stay (delay) in the implementation of the mandate while its legality is being litigated.  In addition, the issue regarding the mandate is statutory, not constitutional.  It is whether Congress has granted OSHA the authority to promulgate a mandate of this type.

Thanks for the informative post.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2901 on: January 13, 2022, 04:58:28 pm »

Actually, the Supreme Court has made no ruling on the substance of the the challenge to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) mandate.  It ordered a stay (delay) in the implementation of the mandate while its legality is being litigated.  In addition, the issue regarding the mandate is statutory, not constitutional.  It is whether Congress has granted OSHA the authority to promulgate a mandate of this type.
Ok Thanks for the clarification.  The bottom line is Biden can't implement the vaccinations he wanted that OSHA mandated.  Litigation will change nothing. It's over. He could go back to Congress to ask for approval through new legislation.  But he won't get the votes.  If he could have, he would have done that earlier instead of trying to use OSHA which he knew beforehand would be rejected by the courts.

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2902 on: January 13, 2022, 05:12:12 pm »

Biden finally woke up.

President Biden announced Thursday that the administration will buy another 500 million at-home COVID-19 tests for Americans in addition to his plans to order 500 million announced last month.

Biden announces new medical teams to help overwhelmed hospitals
Biden also said six new federal medical teams will be dispatched to aid overwhelmed hospitals in six states.

The White House will distribute 10 million more COVID tests per month to schools

The medical teams are being sent to the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio; Coney Island Hospital in Brooklyn; Rhode Island Hospital in Providence; Henry Ford Hospital just outside Detroit; University of New Mexico Hospital in Albuquerque; and University Hospital in Newark, N.J.

Facing criticism over its response to the highly contagious omicron variant, the White House says that since Thanksgiving, over 800 military and other federal personnel have been deployed to 24 states and that 14,000 National Guard members have been activated in 49 states to help with everything from clinical care to administering vaccines. The deployments have been paid for by the federal government with funds from the American Rescue Plan.

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/13/1072730868/biden-announces-plans-to-buy-500-million-more-covid-tests-and-to-offer-free-mask

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2903 on: January 13, 2022, 05:26:02 pm »

Also, from the Supreme Court's majority opinion in the case...

"That is not to say OSHA lacks authority to regulate occupation-specific risks related to COVID–19. Where the virus poses a special danger because of the particular features of an employee’s job or workplace, targeted regulations are plainly permissible... So too could OSHA regulate risks associated with working in particularly crowded or cramped environments."
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digitaldog

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2904 on: January 13, 2022, 05:31:33 pm »

In the dissent.
"When we are wise, we know not to displace the judgments of experts, acting within the sphere Congress marked out and under Presidential control, to deal with emergency conditions. "Today, we are not wise. In the face of a still-raging pandemic, this Court tells the agency charged with protecting worker safety that it may not do so in all the workplaces needed. As disease and death continue to mount, this Court tells the agency that it cannot respond in the most effective way possible"
Yesterday, today, and tomorrow, an unwise fellow will here post about this topic and make it political. Jerk knee, assume, misunderstand, hyjack.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2905 on: January 13, 2022, 05:50:24 pm »

Also, from the Supreme Court's majority opinion in the case...

"That is not to say OSHA lacks authority to regulate occupation-specific risks related to COVID–19. Where the virus poses a special danger because of the particular features of an employee’s job or workplace, targeted regulations are plainly permissible... So too could OSHA regulate risks associated with working in particularly crowded or cramped environments."
This is very similar to the Muslim Ban.   Trump overreached and was slapped down.  He came back with a more reasoned plan that the courts accepted.  I suppose Biden (OSHA) could do the same if they limited the vaccination mandate in a more directed and limited way.  Or go to Congress for legislation if he wants the same comprehensive plan. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2906 on: January 13, 2022, 08:31:09 pm »

Good news:

Omicron 91 percent less likely to be fatal compared to Delta: CDC study
Omicron poses a “substantially reduced risk” of serious illness compared to Delta — and is more than 90 percent less likely to kill those infected, according to a federally funded study.

The study, released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Wednesday, said it proved “compelling evidence of an intrinsically less severe infection” from the variant that currently accounts for 90 percent of cases in the US.

The evaluation of more than 70,000 infected Californians saw those with Omicron less than half as likely to need hospitalization as those with Delta — and about 75 percent less likely to need intensive care.

Those hospitalized also needed to stay approximately 70 percent less time, with a median treatment time of 1.5 days compared to five days for those with the previous dominant variant.

Even though the study looked at three times as many people with Omicron, none of them needed to go on a ventilator in the hospital — compared to 11 in the far smaller group with Delta.

Most encouragingly, just one of the 52,297 people infected with Omicron died — a reduction of 91 percent compared to 14 deaths in the 16,982 studied with Delta. It did not say how old those who died were, or if they were vaccinated.

CDC director Rochelle Walensky told reporters that it likely means the recent increase in deaths is a lagging effect of the Delta variant, not the one rapidly replacing it.


“We may see deaths from Omicron but I suspect that the deaths that we’re seeing now are still from Delta,” Walensky revealed.

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2907 on: January 13, 2022, 09:02:00 pm »

Good news:
Omicron 91 percent less likely to be fatal compared to Delta: CDC study
.
.
“We may see deaths from Omicron but I suspect that the deaths that we’re seeing now are still from Delta,” Walensky revealed.]

Good news, indeed - only 2,000 combined Delta and Omicron deaths yesterday in US
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2908 on: January 13, 2022, 09:08:53 pm »

Good news, indeed - only 2,000 combined Delta and Omicron deaths yesterday in US
I'm looking at the glass half full.  While more people are getting it, they have a much larger chance of surviving.  Also, the article says that many who die might be those from Delta. Also, there was no analysis of how many died who were vaccinated which could reduce the death rate even more.  It will be interesting to see the results soon of that analysis. 

From the article:
Most encouragingly, just one of the 52,297 people infected with Omicron died — a reduction of 91 percent compared to 14 deaths in the 16,982 studied with Delta. It did not say how old those who died were, or if they were vaccinated.

CDC director Rochelle Walensky told reporters that it likely means the recent increase in deaths is a lagging effect of the Delta variant, not the one rapidly replacing it.

JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2909 on: January 14, 2022, 07:15:20 am »

Biden finally woke up.

President Biden announced Thursday that the administration will buy another 500 million at-home COVID-19 tests for Americans in addition to his plans to order 500 million announced last month.

Biden announces new medical teams to help overwhelmed hospitals
Biden also said six new federal medical teams will be dispatched to aid overwhelmed hospitals in six states.

The White House will distribute 10 million more COVID tests per month to schools

The medical teams are being sent to the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio; Coney Island Hospital in Brooklyn; Rhode Island Hospital in Providence; Henry Ford Hospital just outside Detroit; University of New Mexico Hospital in Albuquerque; and University Hospital in Newark, N.J.

Facing criticism over its response to the highly contagious omicron variant, the White House says that since Thanksgiving, over 800 military and other federal personnel have been deployed to 24 states and that 14,000 National Guard members have been activated in 49 states to help with everything from clinical care to administering vaccines. The deployments have been paid for by the federal government with funds from the American Rescue Plan.

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/13/1072730868/biden-announces-plans-to-buy-500-million-more-covid-tests-and-to-offer-free-mask

Is this really a thing; are people really testing at home regularly?  I've been away for a while and just cant fathom non-sick healthy people are really going out of their way to get tests. 

Maybe if this was contained in one area of the US with only a few (relatively speaking) cases testing en mass would make sense.  It does not make any sense now, especially with how transmissible and board this new variant is.  We are not going to stop this virus from going viral at this point. 

The actual message should be, "if you dont feel sick, dont test.  If you do feel sick, but it is mild, stay home but dont worry about testing.  If you have a severe illness, go to the hospital and you will get tested." 

Boom, testing shortage solved.   
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digitaldog

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2910 on: January 14, 2022, 08:59:28 am »

Is this really a thing; are people really testing at home regularly?   
Boom.
Try finding a test kit locally; boom, question answered.
Try searching for news articles about testing kit shortages, boom question answered.
Try Amazon, see how long it takes, even with Prime to get a test get (took me about 3 weeks, got one before leaving for a trip last week). Haven’t used it, feel fine. But glad I have one with me.
If you feel sick, wait at least 24 hours before using for the best results. If you still feel sick, test, boom you have an answer. If you feel better, save the kit.
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digitaldog

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2911 on: January 14, 2022, 09:32:16 am »

States are scrambling to keep up with an increase in Covid-19 hospitalizations and the demand for testing
Quote
As more patients need care, many people with possible Covid-19 symptoms have been left wanting as tests remain hard to find, and doctors have asked those who suspect they are positive to isolate at home with or without confirmation of infection.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/08/health/us-coronavirus-saturday/index.html
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2912 on: January 14, 2022, 10:15:37 am »

Is this really a thing; are people really testing at home regularly?  I've been away for a while and just cant fathom non-sick healthy people are really going out of their way to get tests. 

Maybe if this was contained in one area of the US with only a few (relatively speaking) cases testing en mass would make sense.  It does not make any sense now, especially with how transmissible and board this new variant is.  We are not going to stop this virus from going viral at this point. 

The actual message should be, "if you dont feel sick, dont test.  If you do feel sick, but it is mild, stay home but dont worry about testing.  If you have a severe illness, go to the hospital and you will get tested." 

Boom, testing shortage solved.   
Hi Joe.  My wife and I ordered and received test kits that we holding onto in case one of us suspects we got Omicron, just to distinguish a cold from Covid.  That's safer than having to go to the hospital to get tested where you can catch Covid.  ;)

But we're not going to use it just to use it.  I agree that makes no sense.   

JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2913 on: January 14, 2022, 10:55:02 am »

Hi Joe.  My wife and I ordered and received test kits that we holding onto in case one of us suspects we got Omicron, just to distinguish a cold from Covid.  That's safer than having to go to the hospital to get tested where you can catch Covid.  ;)

But we're not going to use it just to use it.  I agree that makes no sense.

Well that is reasonable, especially given your age, and who likes to go hospitals unless you have to.   

However younger people getting tested just to get tested has really got me quite perplexed.  Before I left the country my wife and I had to get tested.  While getting tested, a young guy came in saying he thought he has bronchitis but just wanted to be sure it was not Covid.  I had bronchitis once and I coughed non-stop for 5 days and ended up with a hernia afterwards (probably had it before but the coughing made it worse).  He did not cough once in the 15 minute timeframe I saw him; he did not have bronchitis.  But there he was ready to waste $150 on a rapid test with no obvious symptoms. 

The whole thing is strange.  If you have a mild case of Covid, the treatments are the same regardless if you know it or not.  Stay home, rest in bed, consume lots of liquids and in five days you'll be better.  This whole emphasis on testing should only apply to those with severe illness or the at risk groups. 

I fear this non-stop hysteria around Covid have broken the brains of a relatively large amount of the population along with damaging purely innocent children, much like the Great Depression did, and we will have to deal with the consequences of for the next 50 years or so.  The longer we keep ourselves from accepting the truth that we all have a rendezvous with Covid, the worse these effects will be. 

But hey, truth is like poetry and most people f*#king hate poetry.   
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2914 on: January 14, 2022, 11:27:11 am »

Well that is reasonable, especially given your age, and who likes to go hospitals unless you have to.   

However younger people getting tested just to get tested has really got me quite perplexed.  Before I left the country my wife and I had to get tested.  While getting tested, a young guy came in saying he thought he has bronchitis but just wanted to be sure it was not Covid.  I had bronchitis once and I coughed non-stop for 5 days and ended up with a hernia afterwards (probably had it before but the coughing made it worse).  He did not cough once in the 15 minute timeframe I saw him; he did not have bronchitis.  But there he was ready to waste $150 on a rapid test with no obvious symptoms. 

The whole thing is strange.  If you have a mild case of Covid, the treatments are the same regardless if you know it or not.  Stay home, rest in bed, consume lots of liquids and in five days you'll be better.  This whole emphasis on testing should only apply to those with severe illness or the at risk groups. 

I fear this non-stop hysteria around Covid have broken the brains of a relatively large amount of the population along with damaging purely innocent children, much like the Great Depression did, and we will have to deal with the consequences of for the next 50 years or so.  The longer we keep ourselves from accepting the truth that we all have a rendezvous with Covid, the worse these effects will be. 

But hey, truth is like poetry and most people f*#king hate poetry.   
I don't know if you saw it, but recently I posted that you were the one who had the foresight to say in 2020 that we're all going to get Covid. I think Slobo said it also.  I don't think I misquoted you. Did I? 

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2915 on: January 14, 2022, 11:30:57 am »

I fear this non-stop hysteria around Covid have broken the brains of a relatively large amount of the population along with damaging purely innocent children, much like the Great Depression did, and we will have to deal with the consequences of for the next 50 years or so.  The longer we keep ourselves from accepting the truth that we all have a rendezvous with Covid, the worse these effects will be. 

But hey, truth is like poetry and most people f*#king hate poetry.
But hey, the truth, 846 thousand counted dead Americans this far: indeed why the non-stop hysteria.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2916 on: January 14, 2022, 01:21:34 pm »

I don't know if you saw it, but recently I posted that you were the one who had the foresight to say in 2020 that we're all going to get Covid. I think Slobo said it also.  I don't think I misquoted you. Did I?

And so has everyone else, including every virologist and public health official in every country on earth. It was never about elimination.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2917 on: January 14, 2022, 01:38:08 pm »

And so has everyone else, including every virologist and a public health official in every country on earth. It was never about elimination.
What?  You got to be kidding.  You just moved the goalposts.  It was all about stopping it.  What public official or virologist said that we're all going to get Covid?  The only one who's come close was former NYS Gov Cuomo who said candidly in early 2020 that 80% of the people were going to be infected.  Then he shut up and never said it again joining the rest of the Democrats who wanted to keep everyone safe by isolating them and having them wear masks. 

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2918 on: January 14, 2022, 02:02:32 pm »

What?  You got to be kidding.  You just moved the goalposts.  It was all about stopping it.  What public official or virologist said that we're all going to get Covid?  The only one who's come close was former NYS Gov Cuomo who said candidly in early 2020 that 80% of the people were going to be infected.  Then he shut up and never said it again joining the rest of the Democrats who wanted to keep everyone safe by isolating them and having them wear masks.

You can re-write history to suit yourself if you like. Once a virus enters the eco-system there was always a very good chance that it would spread, that was known right from the start by everyone, except you maybe. (And btw, all the experts told this to Trump early on, as we now know.) All the efforts have been about controlling the spread, that's all we ever do, to flatten the curve to give medical authorities time to come up with vaccines or treatments, to minimize the spread of virulent forms in hopes that less dangerous mutations eventually dominate. This is basic. There have been literally dozens of linked articles and podcasts given on these pages in which experts in these fields explained all these concepts. I remember listening to one such podcast in spring 2020 on NPR's Human Brain podcast summarizing what happened in 1918, and I provided the link to that here. There is no excuse for you or others not to understand, the info is all there.

But this discussion doesn't belong on this thread. I'm bowing out.
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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2919 on: January 14, 2022, 02:29:29 pm »

We're not talking about just spreading.   The vaccines, masks and isolation were pushed as ways to not get infected.  Politicians and scientists never pushed the idea we all were going to get sick in some form.  They were and still are trying to save us from getting it.  Your reversal is why many people just don't trust the politicians and scientists because they've recently flipped-flopped.  Now they're arguing that well, it's not so bad anymore.  We have to keep the economy open while insisting everyone get vaccinated. They're bipolar, manic-depressive in their ideas.
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