Pages: 1 ... 143 144 [145] 146 147 ... 153   Go Down

Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 108254 times)

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4690
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2880 on: January 12, 2022, 10:23:03 pm »

Alan reminds me of the farmer who was interviewed on TV.  He'd been using noenicitinoids on his cornfield to increase his yield.

"My yield is up 15%", he said.

"But all the bees are dying", said the interviewer.

To which he replied: "But my yield is up 15%"

Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2881 on: January 13, 2022, 07:06:49 am »

"But Alan", if you walk through a room and there's an infected person present and you're wearing a mask and you're social distanced, you've been EXPOSED but not necessarily INFECTED.

Your recreational ignorance is showing again.

It's not becoming.

As a matter of fact, it's downright horrifying.  Especially when we realize there are seventy million of you.

My understanding from previous posts from TechTalk was that exposed meant you took in the pathogens but the body has held off getting infected to show symptoms. If exposed just means being in the same room or nearby, then you're right, the masks would help blocking the pathogens in the first place.  Thanks for making the point clear.

It still would be nice to know what Fauci meant by "maybe a lot of them".

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5339
    • advantica blog
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2882 on: January 13, 2022, 07:18:25 am »

My understanding from previous posts from TechTalk was that exposed meant you took in the pathogens but the body has held off getting infected to show symptoms. If exposed just means being in the same room or nearby, then you're right, the masks would help blocking the pathogens in the first place.  Thanks for making the point clear.

It still would be nice to know what Fauci meant by "maybe a lot of them".

At this time of year, exposure in a warm room is much safer than doing it outside.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2883 on: January 13, 2022, 08:09:01 am »

At this time of year, exposure in a warm room is much safer than doing it outside.
Well, outside, you have to wear a warm mask.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 20651
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2884 on: January 13, 2022, 09:22:53 am »

Alan reminds me of the farmer who was interviewed on TV.  He'd been using noenicitinoids on his cornfield to increase his yield.

"My yield is up 15%", he said.

"But all the bees are dying", said the interviewer.

To which he replied: "But my yield is up 15%"

Reminds me of the resident LuLa “virologist” who told us “Covid is on the way out” when today, we hear:
Quote
Nineteen states have less than 15% remaining capacity in their ICUs. Four of them have less than 10%: Kentucky, Alabama, Indiana and New Hampshire, according to data Wednesday from the US Department of Health and Human Services.
The other states are: Arizona, Delaware, Georgia, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Texas and Vermont, according to HHS.
What a relief that the LuLa virologist has confirmed that "now that Covid is on the way out..."
Often wrong, never in doubt, never afraid to let a complete ignorance of a topic get in the way of his strong opinions and assumptions.  :-X
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2885 on: January 13, 2022, 09:33:32 am »

Three months ago, as the Delta surge was slowing, Alan said that he thought that we had reached herd immunity. What do those pesky epidemiologists know?

Cases and deaths are in decline.  The article says it's not herd immunity, but I think it is.  What do you think?

‘Lurching Between Crisis and Complacency’: Was This Our Last Covid Surge?
Rising immunity and modest changes in behavior may explain why cases are declining, but much remains unknown, scientists say.


...“Delta is running out of people to infect,” said Jeffrey Shaman, an infectious disease epidemiologist at Columbia University.

The fact that case numbers are falling does not mean that the country has reached herd immunity, a goal that many scientists now believe is unattainable. But the rising levels of vaccination and infection, combined with more modest behavioral changes, may have been enough to bring the surge to an end.

“It’s a combination of immunity, but also people being careful,” said Joshua Salomon, an infectious disease expert and modeler at Stanford University...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/14/health/coronavirus-delta-surge.html

Herd immunity? I think not.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 09:38:42 am by TechTalk »
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 20651
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2886 on: January 13, 2022, 09:37:37 am »

Three months ago, as the Delta surge was slowing, Alan said that he thought that we had reached herd immunity.
Herd immunity? I think not.
What you are pointing out with Alan’s comments is his herd mentality.
As to his herd, take your pick:
https://a-z-animals.com/blog/the-19-dumbest-animals-in-the-world/
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2887 on: January 13, 2022, 09:44:49 am »

Three months ago, as the Delta surge was slowing, Alan said that he thought that we had reached herd immunity. What do those pesky epidemiologists know.

Herd immunity? I think not.
Three months ago, the CDC epidemiologists had different conclusions about things as well.  I'm in good company.

In any case, the article stipulates a kind of herd immunity or natural immunity.  One can dispute when natural immunity becomes herd immunity.  My point was that higher rates of infection helped end the virus or in this case one of the variants, Delta.

Quote: Although neither vaccination nor prior infection provides perfect protection against the virus, they dramatically reduce the odds of catching it. So by September, the virus had a substantially harder time finding hospitable hosts.

“Delta is running out of people to infect,” said Jeffrey Shaman, an infectious disease epidemiologist at Columbia University.

The fact that case numbers are falling does not mean that the country has reached herd immunity, a goal that many scientists now believe is unattainable. But the rising levels of vaccination and infection, combined with more modest behavioral changes, may have been enough to bring the surge to an end.

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4770
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2888 on: January 13, 2022, 09:59:17 am »

Three months ago, the CDC epidemiologists had different conclusions about things as well.  I'm in good company.

In any case, the article stipulates a kind of herd immunity or natural immunity.  One can dispute when natural immunity becomes herd immunity.  My point was that higher rates of infection helped end the virus or in this case one of the variants, Delta.

Quote: Although neither vaccination nor prior infection provides perfect protection against the virus, they dramatically reduce the odds of catching it. So by September, the virus had a substantially harder time finding hospitable hosts.

“Delta is running out of people to infect,” said Jeffrey Shaman, an infectious disease epidemiologist at Columbia University.

The fact that case numbers are falling does not mean that the country has reached herd immunity, a goal that many scientists now believe is unattainable. But the rising levels of vaccination and infection, combined with more modest behavioral changes, may have been enough to bring the surge to an end.


Surely the real point here is that your personal opinion (or mine) on whether herd immunity has(had) been reached is worthless. No insult to you is intended, but what do you know about it? Would you consider my opinion on fighter jets worth listening to, because I don't.
Logged
--
Robert

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2889 on: January 13, 2022, 10:08:06 am »

My understanding from previous posts from TechTalk was that exposed meant you took in the pathogens but the body has held off getting infected to show symptoms.

That's because you don't pay attention and only see what you want to see and understand what you want to understand. What I posted is crystal clear that exposure simply means that a pathogen, such as a virus, has entered your body. You may develop an infection from exposure or you may not. Exposure and infection are still two different things.

Vaccines reduce the risk of an exposure becoming an infection by preparing your immune system to attack the virus if you are exposed to it. Masks, social distancing, etc., reduce your risk from an exposure by reducing the concentration or amount of viral load to to which you are exposed, making it easier for your immune system to eliminate the virus before it becomes an infection.

It won't make one whit of difference to someone that doesn't want to understand, but just wants to keep the wheel turning until everyone is exhausted. Then it starts all over again.

Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2890 on: January 13, 2022, 10:56:20 am »

Surely the real point here is that your personal opinion (or mine) on whether herd immunity has(had) been reached is worthless. No insult to you is intended, but what do you know about it? Would you consider my opinion on fighter jets worth listening to, because I don't.
No it's not worthless any more than your opinion is worthless.  None of us here are epidemiologists.  However, everyone is giving their opinion.  We all make decisions based on our opinion on things base on what we read and our experience.  We're not stupid.  You don't need to go to college to have common sense. How do you discuss things with your family and friends?  Are they and you experts on everything.   You must have little to discuss. :) 

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2891 on: January 13, 2022, 11:12:15 am »

If you want to discuss something, it makes the discussion a great deal more worthwhile if you have some basic understanding of what you're discussing. It's important to understand what words mean before you start tossing them out in conversation or you just confuse the issues.

Exposure and infection are not the same thing. Herd immunity and natural immunity are not the same thing.

Sometimes it's better to listen and learn. It's OK to say, I don't know, but I'll find out and learn something new in the process.

Having an opinion on every topic is unnecessary and unrealistic.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2892 on: January 13, 2022, 11:36:51 am »

If you want to discuss something, it makes the discussion a great deal more worthwhile if you have some basic understanding of what you're discussing. It's important to understand what words mean before you start tossing them out in conversation or you just confuse the issues.

Exposure and infection are not the same thing. Herd immunity and natural immunity are not the same thing.

Sometimes it's better to listen and learn. It's OK to say, I don't know, but I'll find out and learn something new in the process.

Having an opinion on every topic is unnecessary and unrealistic.
That's just a put down.  You have no more knowledge than I do on viruses.  We both read stuff on the web and draw our own conclusions based on common sense, experience, a good judgment.  The idea that you know herd immunity doesn't work or becasue masks are great because you read it from a doctor on the web may mean your research has been limited or the doctor is wrong.  It's why people get second opinions from doctors.  Also, as you know well, people bias what they read, including you. 

Finally, doctors, researchers, the CDC, have been wrong over and over about this disease.  Their expertise has not prevented them from making many mistakes, some  deadly.  Finally, even if someone uses only his feelings, they're entitled to their opinion.  This is a photo forum not a science journal for disease management.

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2893 on: January 13, 2022, 11:50:48 am »

We've gone from the merry-go-round to dodgeball. It's a busy playground here folks.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4690
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2894 on: January 13, 2022, 03:08:47 pm »

You have no more knowledge than I do on viruses.

"Nobody knows more than I do about...<insert any topic here>"

Sound familiar?

Quote
Finally, even if someone uses only his feelings, they're entitled to their opinion.
Absolutely.  That's why Trump usually hedges his statements with prevarications.  ie "people are saying.."  or "It might be true that..."

You present your opinions as facts.  Usually erroneous.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 20651
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2895 on: January 13, 2022, 03:15:17 pm »

You present your opinions as facts.  Usually erroneous.
Often erroneous, never in doubt.
That is factual but such facts he often ignores.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2896 on: January 13, 2022, 04:25:42 pm »

Of course, the OSHA mandate pushed by Biden requiring 84 million Americans to be vaccinated was rejected as unconstitutional and cannot be enforced.


Supreme Court Blocks Biden’s Vaccine-Or-Test Rule For Large Employers
The Supreme Court blocked the Biden administration from enforcing its emergency rule mandating that workers at large businesses get vaccinated or undergo regular testing for COVID-19, a major setback for the president’s national vaccination effort.

However, the court decided to allow the administration to proceed with a vaccine mandate for health care workers at federally funded facilities.

https://news.yahoo.com/supreme-court-blocks-biden-vaccine-193719300.html

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3612
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2897 on: January 13, 2022, 04:31:54 pm »

Frankly, I didn't think that there was anything very controversial about what I wrote. I've found that when, for instance, I've told a client or someone that I report to — I don't know, but I'll find out — that I've received a favorable response. They seem to appreciate the honesty and I've done my best to promptly find out and return with an answer. Over time, it has been a trust builder with people.

Knowing what words mean before you use them also seems to be simple common sense. It avoids appearing foolish. And, you look ridiculously stubborn to argue over what a word means when you haven't bothered to check.

Not being so insecure as to believe that you need an opinion on every topic is another way to avoid looking foolish—people that are knowledgeable about a topic can quickly detect someone trying to bluff their way thru a discussion of it. So, it's best not to exceed your limits on a subject or you will lose respect rather than gain it. People will generally be happy to share with you what they know, if you're open about what you know and what you don't know.

Listening (or reading) to learn seems to be obvious. It's hard to learn very much with an open mouth and a closed mind. Of course, choosing a knowledgeable and credible source is the key to obtaining good information.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2898 on: January 13, 2022, 04:48:18 pm »

Frankly, I didn't think that there was anything very controversial about what I wrote. I've found that when, for instance, I've told a client or someone that I report to — I don't know, but I'll find out — that I've received a favorable response. They seem to appreciate the honesty and I've done my best to promptly find out and return with an answer. Over time, it has been a trust builder with people.

Knowing what words mean before you use them also seems to be simple common sense. It avoids appearing foolish. And, you look ridiculously stubborn to argue over what a word means when you haven't bothered to check.

Not being so insecure as to believe that you need an opinion on every topic is another way to avoid looking foolish—people that are knowledgeable about a topic can quickly detect someone trying to bluff their way thru a discussion of it. So, it's best not to exceed your limits on a subject or you will lose respect rather than gain it. People will generally be happy to share with you what they know, if you're open about what you know and what you don't know.

Listening (or reading) to learn seems to be obvious. It's hard to learn very much with an open mouth and a closed mind. Of course, choosing a knowledgeable and credible source is the key to obtaining good information.
Almost everything people post here are preconceptions, cherry-picking, and/or influenced by politics.  I don't think anyone ever changes someone else's mind. We're all like lawyers at a trial. :)

Chris Kern

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2034
    • Chris Kern's Eponymous Website
Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2899 on: January 13, 2022, 04:48:52 pm »

Of course, the OSHA mandate pushed by Biden requiring 84 million Americans to be vaccinated was rejected as unconstitutional and cannot be enforced.

Actually, the Supreme Court has made no ruling on the substance of the the challenge to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) mandate.  It ordered a stay (delay) in the implementation of the mandate while its legality is being litigated.  In addition, the issue regarding the mandate is statutory, not constitutional.  It is whether Congress has granted OSHA the authority to promulgate a mandate of this type.
Pages: 1 ... 143 144 [145] 146 147 ... 153   Go Up