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Author Topic: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers  (Read 4087 times)

SharonVL

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2021, 10:37:38 am »

Thank you, Tim! That was very helpful.

Sharon
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timowen

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2021, 04:22:04 pm »

I was wondering if anyone else has recently tested the new Canson Infinity Arches papers? (I posted my observations on June 12th).

I just rec'd a 24"x10' roll of BFK RIVES Pure White. Hopefully will be printing some 18"x36" images this week, so will let everyone know how it goes.

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JRSmit

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2021, 02:18:45 am »

Yes, just finished the testing and profiling of Canson Arches 88, and still working on Canson Baryta Photograpique Matt. Next week Aquarelle Rag and BFK Rives
The Arches 88 , i wil publish some results later. But, in very short, when you find the right media settings , for me on SCP9000, it is very good. The Canson advised settings are wrong.
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Jan R. Smit

MfAlab

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2021, 02:52:22 am »

Yes, just finished the testing and profiling of Canson Arches 88, and still working on Canson Baryta Photograpique Matt. Next week Aquarelle Rag and BFK Rives
The Arches 88 , i wil publish some results later. But, in very short, when you find the right media settings , for me on SCP9000, it is very good. The Canson advised settings are wrong.

I'm looking forward to it. May I ask about the "wrong Canson advised settings", did you mean reference paper (media type)?
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JRSmit

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2021, 01:34:07 pm »

Quote from: MfAlab
I'm looking forward to it. May I ask about the "wrong Canson advised settings", did you mean reference paper (media type)?
[/quote
Yes, a quick reply, as it is very busy. Using VFAP there is too much ink on the black patch, resulting in a sheen instead of pitch black. Attached image shows it, i hope.
WCRW solves it, with the lowest L-value i measured in alle my years of Printing. Pitch black blacks.
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Jan R. Smit

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2021, 09:24:48 am »

Canson Arches 88 310gsm is a very nice paper, with a character i cannot describe yet.

To find the best possible printer-pipeline settings, i first test without CM the behaviour of the printer-paper combo, in my case the printers are SC-P9000's, using the Drycreek print utility and my own testchart.

Canson specifies use of VFAP , this turns out to be not the right media-type, as the pure black patch (L=0, RGB=0,0,0) appears to be ink-overloaded, resulting in a visible sheen (see picture on previous post) instead of a pitch black appearance. Measurements indicate this also. In such a case, the next media-types to test are USFAP and WCRW, as these have less inkload in the blacks.

With WCRW the black patch is really pitch black, and measurements give a value of L=13.7 - 13.9 . This is on par with the best black measurements on fine art matte papers sofar in my fine art printing practice (by the way on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308).

Added are also the results with the ICC profile i created: in PS the Abs-Col print, and in Lightroom the RelCol (by default including BPC) print (a print of a grey step-wedge linear in L in steps of 2%). In RelCol+BPC mode there is still good tonal separation in the bottom end, which is quite important in my view.


Print results of BVDM Roman-16 images show a very nice result indeed. (no picture, the limit is 4 ;-|)

Note: with the Canson Baryta Photographique 2 Matt 310gsm and the Canson Rag Photographique Mat 310gsm, using VFAP gives the same poor results in the pure black patch (L=0, RGB=0,0,0). This is identical on both SCP9000 printers. This behaviour in pure-black is not uncommon, it is related to the coating on the paper. And luckily Epson has several standard media-types covering the differences.


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Jan R. Smit

PhR

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2021, 01:53:15 am »

Quote
Canson specifies use of VFAP , this turns out to be not the right media-type, as the pure black patch (L=0, RGB=0,0,0) appears to be ink-overloaded, resulting in a visible sheen (see picture on previous post) instead of a pitch black appearance. Measurements indicate this also. In such a case, the next media-types to test are USFAP and WCRW, as these have less inkload in the blacks.

For my knowledge, why are you using other media type instead of resducing ink density ? I would suppose that the latter would permit to have a finer control on the ink load and maybe an even better dMax.

Thanks
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JRSmit

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2021, 05:28:59 am »

For my knowledge, why are you using other media type instead of resducing ink density ? I would suppose that the latter would permit to have a finer control on the ink load and maybe an even better dMax.

Thanks

I did test with reducing the Color Density, but at minus 5 it did not really solve the issue, and more than minus 5 would start to reduce the achievable chromaticities.
The ColorDensity setting is a rather global setting, whereas the WCRW or USFAP etc has more a local difference (dark grey up to black f.i.)
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2021, 08:41:26 am »

I did test with reducing the Color Density, but at minus 5 it did not really solve the issue, and more than minus 5 would start to reduce the achievable chromaticities.
The ColorDensity setting is a rather global setting, whereas the WCRW or USFAP etc has more a local difference (dark grey up to black f.i.)

Correct, usually that is a gamma kind of control that affects the mid range instead of the black ink lay down.  Similar to the ink limitation setting in the HP Z media presets.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

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PhR

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2021, 10:30:40 am »

Thanks Jan and Ernst for your clarifications.

Philippe
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PhR

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2021, 01:20:08 pm »

I there somewhere a ranking of Epson paper settings w.r.t. the quantity of ink laid for darkest tones ?
I guess it should depend ony on the paper type and not on the printer, but I am not sure.
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JRSmit

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2021, 01:47:07 pm »

I there somewhere a ranking of Epson paper settings w.r.t. the quantity of ink laid for darkest tones ?
I guess it should depend ony on the paper type and not on the printer, but I am not sure.
For glossy media settings it is minimal if any. For matte media settings the difference is more. But it is not just amount of ink, it is also the structure of the dots, and the interaction with the coating. Assuming all other parameters are set correctly.
So testing is the only way to find out.
The case with Arches 88 was a bit peculiar,  as the change was rather abrupt.
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Jan R. Smit

JRSmit

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Re: Canson Infinity release new ARCHES papers
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2021, 05:06:04 am »

Here the black&white measurement of another Canson paper: Rag Photograpique 310gsm.

Like the Arches 88 the mediatype choice of WCRW instead of VFAP gives a drop of the L-value for pure black of ~ 3 points  (from 17.5 to 14.7), yet the achieved value is a little bit higher than Arches 88, with the same printer and media-type etc.

But the L-value in it self is not most important thing, it is the response curve from white to black.
Think about the chiaroscuro concept in painting (Caravaggio, Rembrandt etc) , a key part of that method is how to let visible elements sort of fade into darkness/black (or inversely appear from darkness/black). Yet the black on a painting is not very black at all if expressed in an L-value. Nonetheless outstandingly beautiful.

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